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Two die near Sedona at sweat lodge

roseglass

Thinker
roseglass
Joined
Jun 30, 2008
Messages
142
http://www.redrocknews.com/News/two-die-at-sweat-lodge.html

A bit of the header from the article:

Two people died Thursday, Oct. 8, following a sweat lodge ceremony at Angel Valley Retreat Center located down Forest Road 525B between Sedona and Page Springs.

Verde Valley Fire District personnel were called to the scene at 5:19 p.m. Crews found several victims who had been involved in sweat lodge ceremony. Approximately 48 people participated in the ceremony that lasted over two hours, according to VVFD reports.
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I actually surfed in after a year because I wanted to hear the JREF side on this issue. No one appears to have posted about this yet. Apparently, the two folks that died paid nearly 10,000 dollars to attend the new age sweat led by two time Oprah guest. James Arthur Ray - a non-Native American, lead over 60 people into the sweat 'lodge'. 20 people became ill, and one more is still in critical condition tonight. An updated blog post about the story gives more details tonight and you can find that link listed below:

http://www.bittenandbound.com/2009/10/10/james-arthur-ray-fraud-suspected-in-spiritual-warrior-deaths-photos/
 
I just read about this story. It's a tragedy, and I also find it revealing that the New Age guru in question, Mr. Ray, has since left the state of Arizona.

From what I understand, it sounds like Ray didn't know what the hell he was doing, because he put entirely too many people in entirely too small a space. In addition, they covered the lodge with materials that didn't allow for decent air flow. Put all of that together, and you have a situation ripe for asphyxiation.
 
Apparently they are still wanting to question the guy. They said he was uncooperative. I don't know much about the laws on this but wouldn't it be negligent homicide or something? This would be an interesting story to keep up with.
 
MattusMaximus said:
I just read about this story. It's a tragedy, and I also find it revealing that the New Age guru in question, Mr. Ray, has since left the state of Arizona.

From what I understand, it sounds like Ray didn't know what the hell he was doing, because he put entirely too many people in entirely too small a space. In addition, they covered the lodge with materials that didn't allow for decent air flow. Put all of that together, and you have a situation ripe for asphyxiation.
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Ray is a total moron and I hope he gets his ass nailed.
Native AMerican groups have Sweat Lodge ceremonies all the time and nobody gets injured, but then along some dumbbutt New Age Con Man and look what happens.
If you want to get a earful, get a Native American started on what they think about the way their culture and ceremonies are being exploited by Paleface Hucksters ,just be sure there are not kids in the vicinity.
 
They each paid $9,000 for their stay and participation in the program.
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Note: The Real Secret = Get famous enough promoting the Power of Visualization that you can charge $9000-10,000 to 48 participants in a New Age sweatlodge.

This is really sad, of course. But my first thought was similar to Dudalb's. And a little research might have provided these folks with a lot of good information on plastic shamans and such.
 
It would be shocking if it wasn't Sedona. One of the most beautiful places in the world, people by the worst real life caricatures of looney-lefties even Pelosi would be ashamed of and survivalist right wingers in four story mansions with butlers in camouflage.
 
I remember seeing this elsewhere. Maybe taking a bunch of people through rigors like that killed off the weak ones so they wouldn't slow down the hunt. They don't rely on the hunt so much anymore, so maybe they should re-think the strategy.

Heh.

I bad.
 
ExMinister said:
Note: The Real Secret = Get famous enough promoting the Power of Visualization that you can charge $9000-10,000 to 48 participants in a New Age sweatlodge.

This is really sad, of course. But my first thought was similar to Dudalb's. And a little research might have provided these folks with a lot of good information on plastic shamans and such.
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I was doing the same math. What a racket.....and a pretty high profit margin to boot.

Getting your customers to fast is going to save a ton on food expenses and I'm sure when they do eat...they're not being fed steak & lobster. More likely some gruel consisting of glorified grass clippings and government issue soy protein.

The accomodations probably aren't 4-star either.

Hang a few crystal thingamabobs on it and that metal prison cot with a piece of plywood instead of a mattress becomes a "spiritual meditation platform."

You can explain away the lack of indoor plumbing & electricity in rooms by claiming "the spirits are offended by such things".

Too bad he broke one of the basic rules of business......the one about not killing your customers.

I'm sure Randi's financially comfortable...but if he used his conjuring skills and his flair for showmanship in a woo-business like this---he could've been richer than Bill Gates.
 
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roseglass said:
http://www.redrocknews.com/News/two-die-at-sweat-lodge.html

A bit of the header from the article:

Two people died Thursday, Oct. 8, following a sweat lodge ceremony at Angel Valley Retreat Center located down Forest Road 525B between Sedona and Page Springs.

Verde Valley Fire District personnel were called to the scene at 5:19 p.m. Crews found several victims who had been involved in sweat lodge ceremony. Approximately 48 people participated in the ceremony that lasted over two hours, according to VVFD reports.
-------

I actually surfed in after a year because I wanted to hear the JREF side on this issue. No one appears to have posted about this yet. Apparently, the two folks that died paid nearly 10,000 dollars to attend the new age sweat led by two time Oprah guest. James Arthur Ray - a non-Native American, lead over 60 people into the sweat 'lodge'. 20 people became ill, and one more is still in critical condition tonight. An updated blog post about the story gives more details tonight and you can find that link listed below:

http://www.bittenandbound.com/2009/10/10/james-arthur-ray-fraud-suspected-in-spiritual-warrior-deaths-photos/
Click to expand...

Evolution in action.
 
pipelineaudio said:
It would be shocking if it wasn't Sedona. One of the most beautiful places in the world, people by the worst real life caricatures of looney-lefties even Pelosi would be ashamed of and survivalist right wingers in four story mansions with butlers in camouflage.
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Sedona is famous in some circles for it's "vortex" so a lot of spiritual people go there. Googling "Sedona Vortex" results in some interesting links.
 
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Eos of the Eons said:
http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showthread.php?p=5193842#post5193842



19 out of the 63 people who attended ended up in hospital.

10 thousand bucks!!! That's a lot of moola times 63 people. I wonder if he'll be on Oprah again some time soon.
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And I wonder how many of the dead and hospitalized heard about The Secret (SPIT) on the Woo-mistress' show, bought it because because she recommended it, followed its teachings all the way to the Sedona vortex and were sucked in . . . so to speak? :mad:

I wonder if she feels any sense of responsibility? :boggled:
 
Every time I see people paying that much for a line of legal (until someone gets hurt) ********, I get frustrated by money troubles and tempted to turn to the dark side.

I think I'd have been smart enough to milk them without killing them, too.
 
quixotecoyote said:
Every time I see people paying that much for a line of legal (until someone gets hurt) ********, I get frustrated by money troubles and tempted to turn to the dark side.

I think I'd have been smart enough to milk them without killing them, too.
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I'm right there with you. I could be rich by now were it not for these troublesome scruples.
 
BenBurch said:
I'm right there with you. I could be rich by now were it not for these troublesome scruples.
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I've often thought that if I opened a PO box and started advertising "I will pray for you. Send $1.00 to Brother Gord to PO Box XXXX".

And I would too; just to keep things "legal".

But I have scruples as well. Damn upbringing. All my parents fault. :blush:
 
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