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Roman Polanski arrested (discuss)...

See, your scenario is wrong for simple reasons: the sister, assuming she's of age, can consent. I don't give a **** what consenting adults do. The 12-year old can not. The 12-year old, while s/he may be physically sexually mature, is not mentally sexually mature. They're not ready to deal with the consequences that comes from mating.

Oh good, someone's finally found a study that shows that such liaisons lead to adverse life outcomes even if the adult in question is a good relationship partner.

Hook us all up with the link, please. I'm glad that at last we have the direct scientific evidence to settle this once and for all. With this evidence we can lobby to change the age of consent laws in places like Tasmania and Spain from an evidence-based position, which is something I've wanted to see done for a while.

So what was that link? If you've lost the link just give me the name of the study, the name of the journal, the date and the principal author and I'll find it myself.

And hey, you've still been evading my previous questions.

I'm still not going to pull your finger. If you've got an actual argument to make, make it. If you can't make the argument work without first setting up a "gotcha", it was never much of an argument in the first place.
 
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Also, this marks the twelve hour point after my previous post about the conflict between the girl's statement and the forensic evidence in the Polanski case. So far none of the people attacking Polanski have replied to it, which is interesting. Maybe they're all asleep.

Let's see if anyone responds to it in the next twelve.
 
What's there to reply to? You haven't actually presented any support for your statement that the forensic evidence supports Polanski's story more than hers.
 
What's there to reply to? You haven't actually presented any support for your statement that the forensic evidence supports Polanski's story more than hers.

As stated in that post my sources were the Smoking Gun documents linked to previously in this thread. The girl's statement is in one document, Polanski's version of events and the forensic evidence are in the other, larger document. Both documents have been linked to multiple times in this thread already.

I'm assuming that the people participating in this thread have read at least the relevant passages. This is an ongoing discussion, and my goal wasn't to write a FAQ that would enable anybody to read just that one post and be up to speed.
 
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Also, this marks the twelve hour point after my previous post about the conflict between the girl's statement and the forensic evidence in the Polanski case. So far none of the people attacking Polanski have replied to it, which is interesting. Maybe they're all asleep.

Let's see if anyone responds to it in the next twelve.

Well, it's been over four days since you first floated the ridiculous notion that Polanski didn't commit rape. Despite all evidence to the contrary, you've decided to cling to that assertion, and have even repeated it a few times.

Maybe what's happening is no one takes anything you say seriously enough to want to respond because of how wildly irrational you're overall position seems to be.

Either way, maybe you should just give yourself a big pat on the back and proclaim victory.
 
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As far as I can tell, nobody linked ot the smoking gun in this thread. Having reviewed it now, I still don't see what forensic evidence you're talking about. The only "discrepancy" is that there was no anal tearing or blood on the panties. Do you have any record that such evidence is always found hours after anal sex? Otherwise, the absence of evidence is not an evidence of absence. Because if that's the discrepancy of which you speak, I would disagree that this presents any sort of basis to disbelieve the story.

In fact, the record does detail that semen was found in her panties, which indicates that there was intercourse of some sort, as well as confirming that she had ingested Quaalude. So whether it was anal or vaginal would seem irrelevant to the determination as to whether he committed any form of rape.
 
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The report indicates there was semen on her panties. That would seem to me to be conclusive evidence of unlawful sex with a minor. At most there might be a question as to which orifice was involved (though I still see no reason to doubt her story).
 
The report indicates there was semen on her panties.

Does it say how old it was?

That would seem to me to be conclusive evidence of unlawful sex with a minor. At most there might be a question as to which orifice was involved (though I still see no reason to doubt her story).

If the semen were an old stain, then there would also be the question of whose semen it was.
 
Does it say how old it was? If the semen were an old stain, then there would also be the question of whose semen it was.

The report is silent on this issue. The report does detail her activities after leaving Roman Polanski until she gave the panties up for testing, and there did not seem to be an opportunity for intercourse afterwards. She was at polanski's house all day, so there doesn't seem to have been opportunity for intercourse that day with anybody else.

But this is inconsequential, since Polanski admits to having sex with her, so the identity of the semen merely confirms both Polanski and the victim's stories. The only issue -- for purposes of convicting him on anything more than statutory rape -- is whether he forced himself on her. There is not going to be any forensic evidence on that issue.

It appears that Kevin Lowe is going for the "What else did you lie about" defense, in which you point out some possible inconsistency between physical evidence and any aspect of the victim's story and extrapolate from that, that the victim is lying about other more salient aspects of the victim's story.

I.e., there is no anal tearing, so it is possible there was no anal sex. If there is no anal sex, then she was lying about having had anal sex. If she lied about having anal sex, she's a liar. If she's a liar, we can't trust her when she says he forced himself on her.

I'm no fan of such arguments. There are too many assumptions, and it would mean that you can never convict a man of non-statutory rape unless your victim was 100% consistent in her testimony at all times, which is not something we expect from anybody, particularly 13-year old girls who are trying to recall events that occurred while under the influence of sedatives.
 
As far as I can tell, nobody linked ot the smoking gun in this thread. Having reviewed it now, I still don't see what forensic evidence you're talking about. The only "discrepancy" is that there was no anal tearing or blood on the panties. Do you have any record that such evidence is always found hours after anal sex? Otherwise, the absence of evidence is not an evidence of absence. Because if that's the discrepancy of which you speak, I would disagree that this presents any sort of basis to disbelieve the story.

Tests for semen in her vagina and anus also came back negative, as I stated in my earlier post. Her statement claimed that Polanski had anal sex to climax with her, but there was no sign of anal injury consistent with rape and no semen consistent with climaxing.

The wikipedia article on rape kits seems to indicate that semen can be detected for up to 72 hours after a rape, although possibly the technology was less sensitive in the seventies, and since this rape was reported fairly promptly I see no basis in what I currently know about such tests to think that they are likely to come back with a false negative. I would also like to think that if there was a good basis to think there might be a false negative that this would have been noted.

I have not been able to locate a scholarly source on the degree of injury you would expect to see if an anal rape has occurred. Lengthy and disturbing lists of possible injuries up to and including injuries that require reconstructive surgery and a colostomy bag, yes, but nothing clearly stating whether or not it's possible for an adult male to anally rape a thirteen year old girl until he climaxes without use of lubricant and without causing any injuries. One distinct possibility is that it's such a stupid question nobody even asks it.

In fact, the record does detail that semen was found in her panties, which indicates that there was intercourse of some sort, as well as confirming that she had ingested Quaalude.

My understanding was that semen was not found in her undergarments as such, but rather a chemical trace consistent with and highly indicative of semen was found. Since she was sexually active I don't think that it follows (certainly not to the standard of proof beyond reasonable doubt) that those traces came from Polanski that night rather than from her boyfriend at some other time.

The complete lack of anal injuries or sperm in the anus is simply inconsistent with the claim that she was anally raped by Polanski until he climaxed. That part of her story I currently can't see any way of reconciling with the forensic facts.

Whether or not Polanski climaxed at all is less clear, although the fact that they didn't find semen itself on her undergarments, but only traces of chemical residue, also seems hard to reconcile with the details of the girl's statement.

So whether it was anal or vaginal would seem irrelevant to the determination as to whether he committed any form of rape.

You have a curious case of tunnel vision. Why is your sole concern "whether he committed any form of rape", as opposed to achieving the best understanding we can of what the available evidence says?

I get the impression from you and Johnny Karate that you're treating this thread as some kind of juvenile pissing contest where you're here to prove that Polanski's a rapist and I'm cast as the guy trying to get Polanski off. If so you suck as a skeptic. We should all be here to get to the truth, or as close as we can get to it, whatever that turns out to be.
 
That Polanski had sex with a 13 year-old girl is not in question. He admitted he did in a court of law.

Kevin's agenda is to deny the evidence that Polanski had anal sex with her, a legally irrelevant distinction that seems to serve no other purpose than to simply prove some people wrong.
 
It appears that Kevin Lowe is going for the "What else did you lie about" defense, in which you point out some possible inconsistency between physical evidence and any aspect of the victim's story and extrapolate from that, that the victim is lying about other more salient aspects of the victim's story.

I.e., there is no anal tearing, so it is possible there was no anal sex. If there is no anal sex, then she was lying about having had anal sex. If she lied about having anal sex, she's a liar. If she's a liar, we can't trust her when she says he forced himself on her.

I'm no fan of such arguments. There are too many assumptions, and it would mean that you can never convict a man of non-statutory rape unless your victim was 100% consistent in her testimony at all times, which is not something we expect from anybody, particularly 13-year old girls who are trying to recall events that occurred while under the influence of sedatives.

What a surprise: Yet another poster with no constructive response to what I actually post, who feels perfectly entitled to put whatever words in my mouth they want and then respond to those.

I'm not going to respond to this sort of nonsense. Respond to my actual posts, if you have any integrity. The same goes for you, Johnny Karate. If you're anything other than a troll respond to the content in my actual posts. Don't make up garbage about my "agenda" until you've won the million with your mind-reading powers.
 
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Kevin, just so there's no more misunderstandings, could you please explain the relevance of determining whether or not anal sex actually occurred?
 
Kevin, just so there's no more misunderstandings, could you please explain the relevance of determining whether or not anal sex actually occurred?

I am unable to make sense of the question. Relevance to what? The relevance to reaching the best possible understanding of what did or did not take place seems so self-evident that I can't see why anyone would even ask the question.
 
I am unable to make sense of the question. Relevance to what? The relevance to reaching the best possible understanding of what did or did not take place seems so self-evident that I can't see why anyone would even ask the question.

Your focus on one particular detail to the exclusion of all others in no way will yield a better understanding of the overall event. Should we also seek to determine the temperature of the hot tub? Or the brand of champagne?

Roman Polanski drugged and raped a 13 year-old girl, and then feld from justice before he could be sentenced. That sodomy might have also occurred is immaterial to these facts.

So why do you continue to argue about this one particular aspect of an event that in no way changes the overall nature of the discussion about said event?
 
Your focus on one particular detail to the exclusion of all others in no way will yield a better understanding of the overall event. Should we also seek to determine the temperature of the hot tub? Or the brand of champagne?

Roman Polanski drugged and raped a 13 year-old girl, and then feld from justice before he could be sentenced. That sodomy might have also occurred is immaterial to these facts.

So why do you continue to argue about this one particular aspect of an event that in no way changes the overall nature of the discussion about said event?

CINNA THE POET: Truly, my name is Cinna.

First Citizen: Tear him to pieces; he's a conspirator.

CINNA THE POET: I am Cinna the poet, I am Cinna the poet.

Fourth Citizen: Tear him for his bad verses, tear him for his bad verses.

CINNA THE POET: I am not Cinna the conspirator.

Fourth Citizen: It is no matter, his name's Cinna; pluck but his
name out of his heart, and turn him going.
 

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