Are the freemasons demonic?

NorthMass said:
Well thank you for the responses, I had no idea about the freemasons coming into this thread really but it seems like the freemason conspiracy theories may simply not be accurate.
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And you are behaving like a genuine person that's learning. And it's not there's not some interesting things to learn about the 'brotherhood' and its history and whether or not it does signify something more concrete behind the scenes... but yeah, all that cartoony 'they worship goats and want a luciferian world order and draw their dark secrets from babylon...' motivates by scaring more than by educating.

Now, it was stated here there aren't all these levels, except then there are, but only with the Scottish Rite. So... there is a 33rd degree and those beneath it in the Scottish Rite brand of Freemasonry. And the original question was what's up with that? I'm not too clear myself - how many US Presidents have NOT been 33rd degree masons of the Scottish Rite? And what does this not-quite coincidence actually mean? 'Cause statistically, that % of US citizens aren't 33rd degree Masons.

LiD or anyone.
 
Caustic Logic said:
I'm not too clear myself - how many US Presidents have NOT been 33rd degree masons of the Scottish Rite? And what does this not-quite coincidence actually mean? 'Cause statistically, that % of US citizens aren't 33rd degree Masons.

LiD or anyone.
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14 of 44 have been Masons, the most recent being Gerald Ford (33° BTW). If you want to stretch it, Clinton could be tarred Masonic for being involved in De Molay (Masonic boy's group).

From a quick boo around Google, it seems only two were 33° Masons:

Harry Truman and Gerald Ford

Information sourced from this site

HTH
Fitz
 
JoeyDonuts said:
They have horrendous gas
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It can barely power those stupid cars shriners drive.
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Symbol said:
I like this summary.

Does freemasonry have an official explanation of why it continues to exclude women?
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When you ask whether freemasonry has an "official explanation", freemasonry is such an amorphous term that there really is no official organ to issue such statements.

The most widely known organization that represents mainstream freemasonry, the United Grand Lodge of England, has I believe stated now on several occasions that while the UGLE does not permit women to join UGLE affiliated lodges that it has no problem with females forming their own female-only or co-ed lodges. There are several organizations that have done just that. The UGLE recently put on a big exhibit about female freemasonry and the important role that it has had in the organizations development.

In the US and (I think) Scotland, the Order of the Eastern Stars exists which is a masonic organization that women can and do join. It isn't a lodge but is considered one of the many organizations that exist under the masonic umbrella like Jobs Daughters (childrens group for girls) or DeMolay (childrens group for boys).

Freemasonry is made up of so many disparate organizations - since no masonic organization holds a copyright to the term "freemason" and none of them have an interest in controlling who gets to claim the title. So what that results in is women creating female-only lodges, men and women creating co-ed lodges, and men creating men-only lodges. And none of them have any interest in changing how the other groups run their lodges. In that respect its really similar (although this is all Freemasonry has that is similar with greek organizations) to university greek groups - some are men only (fraternities), some are female only (sororities), and some are co-ed.
 
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LightinDarkness said:
Now, it was stated here there aren't all these levels, except then there are, but only with the Scottish Rite. So... there is a 33rd degree and those beneath it in the Scottish Rite brand of Freemasonry. And the original question was what's up with that? I'm not too clear myself - how many US Presidents have NOT been 33rd degree masons of the Scottish Rite? And what does this not-quite coincidence actually mean? 'Cause statistically, that % of US citizens aren't 33rd degree Masons.

LiD or anyone.
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Fitz has answered this well but there is another part I want to address on this, which is bolded.

No one has ever claimed that there are "levels" in the Scottish Rite except conspiracy theorists. Levels would mean that the degrees progress in a way which higher numbers grant additional power, authority, or rank. They do not, and they never have. The degrees are numbered because there are 30 of them and its easier to keep track of that way. Frankly, if the Scottish Rite had any idea a few hundred years ago how the numbers would be interpreted they probably would have dropped it or changed it to a letter system. IE, we'd have the A-Z degrees.

And as its been originally answered, the 33rd degree of the Scottish Rite is a community service award. Its given to those members who have made huge contributions through their profession, charity work, philanthropy, etc. to freemasonry and society at large. No one is "beneath" a 33rd degree mason. They have just as much power and authority as any 3rd degree mason. In fact, practically speaking I probably have more power than most 33rd degree masons because most are extraordinarily busy professionals who can't make it to most of the meetings and never vote on anything. Of course, then there are the 33rd degree retired farmers who show up to EVERYTHING...but their vote counts just as much as mine.
 
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Oh yeah - is that the site that offers ex-Masons special prayers to get right with God again after being a Mason? Black background, very 90's? Man, that site's been around forever - I think I remember seeing it once while I was still in high school.

And yes, masonicinfo.com is a VERY good site. Looks to me like you got the bases covered here.
 
Yep, that FreemasonryWatch. Offering Anti-Masonic Propaganda based in 18th century hoaxes with TERRIBLE website design since 1990! :D
 
Drudgewire said:
It can barely power those stupid cars shriners drive. [qimg]http://www.lethalwrestling.com/upload/eng101.gif[/qimg]
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Stupid?!? The only reason I would ever profess belief in a Supreme Architect is so I'd' get to haul ass in one of those things wearing a totally sweet fez.
 
fitzgibbon said:
14 of 44 have been Masons, the most recent being Gerald Ford (33° BTW). If you want to stretch it, Clinton could be tarred Masonic for being involved in De Molay (Masonic boy's group).

From a quick boo around Google, it seems only two were 33° Masons:

Harry Truman and Gerald Ford

Information sourced from this site

HTH
Fitz
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I had heard like all presidents except Kennedy and I guess Adams at least, were 33rd degree Masons. I also heard that was a distortion, but only two, really? Both first entering other than by election as pres, FWIW. But And as LiD says, the levels don't even connote power, just dedication. But even of all levels only 14 or 15 of 44? That's only a bit higher (factor of three?) than masonry in the general public.

But it is higher, meaning... People want dedicated civic-minded people of the all-American Masonic stripe? There's something to this, if not conspiratorial or satanic, having to with ideas and history, religion and identity, the reformation, revolution, etc... it's gotta be interesting but I can't get deep into it now.
 
Caustic Logic said:
I had heard like all presidents except Kennedy and I guess Adams at least, were 33rd degree Masons. I also heard that was a distortion, but only two, really? Both first entering other than by election as pres, FWIW. But And as LiD says, the levels don't even connote power, just dedication. But even of all levels only 14 or 15 of 44? That's only a bit higher (factor of three?) than masonry in the general public.

But it is higher, meaning... People want dedicated civic-minded people of the all-American Masonic stripe? There's something to this, if not conspiratorial or satanic, having to with ideas and history, religion and identity, the reformation, revolution, etc... it's gotta be interesting but I can't get deep into it now.
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In starting out, I would've expected more but that's what the numbers show. Not so surprising is the paucity of ebil Masons in the last generation which dovetails nicely wit Masonry falling out of favour with grown-ups ( non-Boomer grown-ups, that is to say). I also would've expected more to have been granted 33° by simple virtue of having achieved the States' highest public office. Obviously the Scottish Rite folks are a hardass, hard-to-please bunch. :D

The other thing to bear in mind is Masonry's popularity through the generations. You have to bear in mind that there was an anti-Masonic backlash in the States (and to a lesser degree in Canada) from about 1827 to the mid-1800s as a result of the Morgan Affair. And then with the Boomers rejecting the things their fathers held dear, there was also a dip there. However, everything runs in cycles and as many Masonic lodges are seeing an uptick in interest in Masonry (and religious and societal focus in general), it wouldn't surprise me to see another president of the States who's a Mason (or has Clinton-like Masonic connections) within the next decade or so.

Freemasonry's acceptance of religious equality may (over the long term) prove prescient. Hopefully mankind will live up to its potential in that regard
 
Caustic Logic said:
I had heard like all presidents except Kennedy and I guess Adams at least, were 33rd degree Masons. I also heard that was a distortion, but only two, really? Both first entering other than by election as pres, FWIW. But And as LiD says, the levels don't even connote power, just dedication. But even of all levels only 14 or 15 of 44? That's only a bit higher (factor of three?) than masonry in the general public.

But it is higher, meaning... People want dedicated civic-minded people of the all-American Masonic stripe? There's something to this, if not conspiratorial or satanic, having to with ideas and history, religion and identity, the reformation, revolution, etc... it's gotta be interesting but I can't get deep into it now.
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Its a common conspiracy myth that most presidents are "33rd degree masons." Its a lie - it has never been true. The "they have all been masons by Kennedy!" lie comes from the CT mischaracterization of his secrecy speech - which they claim was talking about secret societies, but really was talking about free press and communism. Only a handful of presidents have ever been masons, and of those, only a few were 33rd degree masons.

The levels don't indicate power OR dedication. It takes 2 days to go from the 3rd degree to the 32nd degree, they do it in a weekend. Some people choose to take their time and only see a few degrees each year. Some decide to do it all in that weekend. It takes far more work to apply and receive the 1st degree than it does the 32nd degree of the Scottish Rite. They just aren't level in any sense of the word - they are a numbering system. That is all.

CTs envision freemasonry as some sort of pyramid structure with 1st degree at the bottom and 33rd degree at the top. The only place such a structure exists is in CT fantasy worlds. In reality, the 3rd degree is the highest masonic degree at all levels. In many places outside of the US people haven't even HEARD of the Scottish Rite.
 
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