"Capitalism is Evil" - Michael Moore.

Eyeron said:
It never fails to amuse me to see rich people bemoaning the evil capitalism won't give up their money.

That's the hypocrisy I often see with Socialists, is that they always want someone else to give up all their property and wealth and give it to themselves.
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Stereotyping people with different philosophies is almost never productive. It is just a way of hiding an ad hominem attack under a sheet and hoping nobody notices what it is.

That's why I've come to call it the politics of envy, as well as the politics of materialism. Because at the core of socialism is the argument that people should not be allowed to have more than anybody else, if they do it must be taken away from them and given to the the people who don't have a s much.
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The same goes for attributing evil motives to people.

It's a fine system for those who want to voluntarily live in it. But as for me, why should I work if it's just going to be taken away from me, or why should I work if it'll just be taken away from somebody else and given to me?
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Even in the most heavily socialised capitalist countries, people still work and the system works.
 
Talby said:
Something I've noticed is that rich people love to tell poor people that making money is wrong.
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I haven't heard a single rich person say that. I do, however, often hear poor people say things suggesting they are misled into thinking regulated capitalism is not in their best interest.


I'll reserve judgment on the movie until I see it myself. My son who is studying for an economics/math degree tells me Moore has a lot of factual errors in his new movie.

On the other hand, the BS put out about the F. 911 movie in 59 Deceits was itself almost devoid of supportable facts so I don't buy the automatic criticisms of Moore by the right wing before or after they've seen any of his movies.

Moore has a point of view. He doesn't get every single thing right. OTOH, he doesn't get nearly as much wrong as his critics claim.
 
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Kevin_Lowe said:
Stereotyping people with different philosophies is almost never productive. It is just a way of hiding an ad hominem attack under a sheet and hoping nobody notices what it is.



The same goes for attributing evil motives to people.



Even in the most heavily socialised capitalist countries, people still work and the system works.
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That was some epic, superhero level /handwaving. Just reduced every concern he had to being non-existent and wrong. No need to even refute any of it then. After all, if you say it's all just attributing evil and stereotyping, then it must be. He couldn't possibly have any good point in there at all, or any legitimate concerns at all.
 
thaiboxerken said:
Is not unbridled capitalism somewhat bad?
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Yes, but that's apparantly not what he's saying.

"You have to eliminate it and replace it with something that is good for all people and that something is democracy."
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And if the people vote for capitalism, what then?
Actually, capitalism and democracy seem to go quite well together from what I can tell. The most humane, wealthy and civilized countries all seem to use this combination.
Capitalism is bridled rather than unbridled. I'm not aware of any successful democratic country that has not put some limits on capitalism. I'm also not aware of any successful democratic country that has attempted to do away with capitalism altogether.

Meanwhile, large companies have been prepared to lay off thousands of staff despite boasting record profits.
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It's price we pay for having a dynamic economy where new technologies are always emerging and some jobs are becoming obsolete every day.

And he interviews an employee of a firm which buys up re-possessed, or "distressed" properties at a fraction of their original value and which is called Condo Vultures.
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Well. It seems the company itself has helped Moore to paint them as bad guys with its choice of name. But even such companies actually serve a useful economic function.
 
Kevin_Lowe said:
That poor straw man! Leave it alone, it never did anything to you.
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Hey...you're the one that attempted to bring in an appeal to authority (i.e, Then again maybe that's what it takes to get to the mass US audience. He's the millionaire film maker, not me.) as a off hand way of disregarding criticism of Moore as a film maker.

The point is, that criticizing the often times dishonest way he went about things in previous films is legitimate when talking about film making. Again...my point has nothing to do with Moore's politics or message; it is all about his process.
 
Whiplash said:
That was some epic, superhero level /handwaving. Just reduced every concern he had to being non-existent and wrong. No need to even refute any of it then.
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Arguments can be refuted. Unsupported ad hominem attacks should just be flagged as such and then passed over.

After all, if you say it's all just attributing evil and stereotyping, then it must be. He couldn't possibly have any good point in there at all, or any legitimate concerns at all.
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I assume that if he had anything intelligent to contribute he would have done so, and I make the same assumption in your case. If I'm proven wrong by later developments so be it.
 
If the fat slob redirected just a small portion of his immense food budget, developing countries could subsist for a year.
 
Marc39 said:
If the fat slob redirected just a small portion of his immense food budget, developing countries could subsist for a year.
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:D

I wanted to say something snide but I couldn't best this.
 
I wish I could hate Michael Moore more but I really used to love TV Nation.
 
Drudgewire said:
I wish I could hate Michael Moore more but I really used to love TV Nation.
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I'm on record as being a Moore fan. I have a copy of Canadian Bacon and have watched it many times. I like his work. I really liked TV Nation.

I think Moore is quite good for starting conversations. I don't think he has much credibility though. I think most people get that he is being provocative and that he is creative in his truth telling (documentaries).
 
Though Moore can be overly dramatic at times, he does make good points and have good insights into how American society works.
 
thinkingman said:
Though Moore can be overly dramatic at times, he does make good points and have good insights into how American society works.
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I'd have to give him an "F" on economics but then I'm not really sure he drinks his own Kool-Aid.

The trip to Cuba was telling. He knows that no one is risking their lives to go live in Cuba while the reverse is most certainly true.

I honestly am not sure how many "good points" he has. He's thought provoking and his stuff is entertaining. I'll give him that.
 
thaiboxerken said:
Is not unbridled capitalism somewhat bad?
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Compared to what?

See, unbridled capitalism, with all its ugly warts like locked back doors, child labor, and so on, ended up causing a skyrocketing in the population as people didn't die because they didn't labor in near-poverty on farms, until the social memes developed to reduce the rates of offspring*.





* An excellent example of intelligence as allowing a still-faster modification of the organism, if "only" in behavior, than even sexual reproduction with non-catastrophic re-juggling of genes can produce.
 
arthwollipot said:
So in other words, no you don't.

You do realise that there are metabolic reasons for people to be overweight that don't involve overeating, don't you?
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May I suggest that the entire topic of Michael Moore's weight is off topic for a thread about the issues raised in one of his movies?
 
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