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The Freeman Movement and England

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Especially said:
Let me make it even more simple.

1. The Council Tax system operates under commercial law.

2. The law of contracts clearly states that BOTH parties must consent before a contract exists

3. If one party or the other does not consent to contract then no contract exists between them.

Which part of this embarrasingly simple message do you still not understand ?

Thank You

:)
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This "law of contracts" is part of English Common Law? Can I see a copy or is it only written on the hearts of True Englishmen?

I see no evidence that you are following your own teachings so why would anyone else?
 
Especially said:
People who decline the offer to pay the council tax are exercising their right of choice. Actually, I think it's called the Community Charge.

Life IS choice, isn't it, Lothian ?

Seriously, in a free country we may accept or decline commercial offers. Why, you may even grow to like it !

Speaking of which (and as a peace offering) - this magnificent work -

http://video.google.com/videosearch?q=verbier+orchestral+suite&emb=0&aq=f#
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Ah, you're a Bach man!

Now we can be friends. :)
 
volatile said:
*Ahem*

To whom do I complain if I do all you say but still get locked up anyway?
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I hear the Mods at JREF are mighty and powerful so you can complain to them.

You'll still get locked up but you can blame Lisa.
 
tsig said:
This "law of contracts" is part of English Common Law? Can I see a copy or is it only written on the hearts of True Englishmen?

I see no evidence that you are following your own teachings so why would anyone else?
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If you need a book on commercial contracts I am sure I can oblige you. Rule Number 1. A contract requires the consent of both parties.

There ! That was easy, wasn't it ?
 
Especially said:
You find the theory 'bizzare' ? What theory ? The fact that commercial contracts do not exist without the consent of both parties, perhaps ? I cannot make you see if you choose to wear dark glasses and hide in a darkened room. The consent of both parties must exist or there is not commercial contract. What part of this simple message do you not understand ?
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No, not that "theory". The fact that commercial contracts do not exist without the consent of both parties wasn't disputed by anyone in this thread. I meant the theory that the common law is the only real law and that what we perceive as "law" is really the "Admiralty law", as I'm sure you understood anyway, but tried to answer with a very childish logical fallacy instead. This discussion would be so much better if someone argued your side by actually giving proof and answering questions.

As for my "wearing dark glasses and hiding in a darkened room", I told you that this theory would have nothing to do with my life even if it were true, because, as I told you, I belong to the majority of the world that has never had a common law. I suppose we all use the Admiralty law othen. It would be entertaining to learn how landlocked countries like Switzerland, Andorra, Slovakia or Serbia got under the Admiralty law...
 
:)
tsig said:
I hear the Mods at JREF are mighty and powerful so you can complain to them.

You'll still get locked up but you can blame Lisa.
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Spoken like a person who is not only out of their depth but has finally realised it :)
 
Especially said:
Exactly ! You assert the Golden Rule. You remind them of contract law. You remind them of commercial law. You remind them of the law of England. You remind them you do not consent to any such contract. That you do not want their goods and services. And they respond with understanding and leave you alone with your choice.

Sounds fair and reasonable to me ?

But are you in the Soviet Union ?

:boggled:
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And when the judge has the bailiff lock you away then what?

I'm not sure what the SU and it's legal system has to do with this discussion.
 
Maja said:
No, not that "theory". The fact that commercial contracts do not exist without the consent of both parties wasn't disputed by anyone in this thread. I meant the theory that the common law is the only real law and that what we perceive as "law" is really the "Admiralty law", as I'm sure you understood anyway, but tried to answer with a very childish logical fallacy instead. This discussion would be so much better if someone argued your side by actually giving proof and answering questions.

As for my "wearing dark glasses and hiding in a darkened room", I told you that this theory would have nothing to do with my life even if it were true, because, as I told you, I belong to the majority of the world that has never had a common law. I suppose we all use the Admiralty law othen. It would be entertaining to learn how landlocked countries like Switzerland, Andorra, Slovakia or Serbia got under the Admiralty law...
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If I was to tell you how landlocked countries came under the international law of business you would not be amused. You would be shocked. Because that is exactly what has happened.
 
tsig said:
And when the judge has the bailiff lock you away then what?

I'm not sure what the SU and it's legal system has to do with this discussion.
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Locked away for declining the offer of a commercial contract ? This really IS the Soviet Union, isn't it ?

:)
 
geni said:
No it isn't. Common law was the legal system introduced into England post 1066
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This is the primary problem. Common Law does not mean what Especially thinks it means. He just does not know any better, because he has been brainwashed.

We know what it means, but FOTLers wave the words around like some magic talisman, do not define it (except in some vague sort of way which makes it mean "what I say it means") and simply use it as some sort of excuse to not pay for things.

The last, being of course, the bottom line, and their only reason for existance.

"I 'aint payin' no stinkin' taxes"

Except of course, that it does not work in the real world, as Especially continues to refuse to understand what works in a real Court of law. He is simply spouting rhetoric from (apparently) the only two other websites he ever visits - FOTL websites.

Norm
 
Lothian said:
And when they exercise that choise will they be imprisoned?

And can you think again. Is it called the Community Charge?
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When a man or a woman exercise their choice not to contract with a corporation on one of their commercial offers (an offer administered under a court of commerce and not the law of the land) they will of course be imprisoned. Thus proving we are living in the Soviet Union.
 
fromdownunder said:
This is the primary problem. Common Law does not mean what Especially thinks it means. He just does not know any better, because he has been brainwashed.

We know what it means, but FOTLers wave the words around like some magic talisman, do not define it (except in some vague sort of way which makes it mean "what I say it means") and simply use it as some sort of excuse to not pay for things.

The last, being of course, the bottom line, and their only reason for existance.

"I 'aint payin' no stinkin' taxes"

Except of course, that it does not work in the real world, as Especially continues to refuse to understand what works in a real Court of law. He is simply spouting rhetoric from (apparently) the only two other websites he ever visits - FOTL websites.

Norm
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May I correct you ? When I was younger and vulnerable to all kinds of influences I was very brainwashed. Even to the point of accepting unelected despots and corporate scams. The sheer breathtaking arrogance of it. But one grows older and finally learns what choice is. What our consent is. What the law really is. It's something of a revelation. To be free, I mean. And to be under the law. Since there is only one law that makes us truly free. And we already have it.
 
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Especially said:
If I was to tell you how landlocked countries came under the international law of business you would not be amused. You would be shocked. Because that is exactly what has happened.
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Shock us then already.
 
Especially said:
Yes Sir, Herr Bach, the greatest miracle in all of music !!!

:)
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I agree 100%. Damn - I shall have to be polite to you from now on! However wrong your ideas about the law, I cannot bring myself to be mean to a man with such exquisite musical taste. :)

Incidentally, a few pages back, D'rok dealt rather well with the issue of consent. (He was quite brusque though - tut.)
 
fromdownunder said:
This is the primary problem. Common Law does not mean what Especially thinks it means. He just does not know any better, because he has been brainwashed.

We know what it means, but FOTLers wave the words around like some magic talisman, do not define it (except in some vague sort of way which makes it mean "what I say it means") and simply use it as some sort of excuse to not pay for things.

The last, being of course, the bottom line, and their only reason for existance.

"I 'aint payin' no stinkin' taxes"

Except of course, that it does not work in the real world, as Especially continues to refuse to understand what works in a real Court of law. He is simply spouting rhetoric from (apparently) the only two other websites he ever visits - FOTL websites.

Norm
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A 'real' court of law ?

You are of course refering to the court of Admiralty Law (commercial law) ? But I am refering to the court of the law of England.

So you see who is deceived and who is not.
 
Especially said:
Life is choice. Remove choice and we are in a tyranny.
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Eh? Sorry, you've gone a bit high-concept for me. I'm simple and brainwashed, remember? You'll have to spell it out for me. Assume I do everything you say I need to do in order to be considered under the Law of England. What happens if the judge locks me up anyway? I mean - he's corrupt and Jesuit and evil, right? So, utterly, what's the point of this form of words which, unless you think they literally have magic powers, won't ever achieve what you think they will?

Do you think the words have magic power?
 
Especially said:
When a man or a woman exercise their choice not to contract with a corporation on one of their commercial offers (an offer administered under a court of commerce and not the law of the land) they will of course be imprisoned.
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Thank you.

I presume that you are not trying to get people imprisoned. What is your point?

A freebie for you. Us Brit's don't call the council tax the community charge. The community charge was known as the Poll tax. You might want to look it up.
 
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