The Freeman Movement and England

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Especially said:
Really ?

In that case you will confirm to us that the deal made between King John of England with the pope in Rome (during the era of Magna Carta) was binding on him and all future kings of England in perpetuity. According to its own text. Sealed by King John. Which meant England and the tax payers of England were forever to pay, each year, big money to the papacy in Rome through all monarchs. There's the truth.

As for the Jesuits, they infiltrated England, big time, and are today running whole areas of our government, our secret services, our mass media, our newspapers, television etc. Haven't heard about it ? Have you heard of the Knights of Columbus and their control of the CIA ? How many directors have been members of that one group ?

Try the website 'Arctic Beacon' ?

Surely you can confirm this to be true. You are a historian. The documented scam of the monarchy and the papacy in alliance in perpetuity. Forever. Says so right in the text ! Assuming of course documentary evidence matters to you, that is. I am also a historian.
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The KNights of Columbus control the CIA?



 
Especially said:
As for the Jesuits, they infiltrated England, big time, and are today running whole areas of our government, our secret services, our mass media, our newspapers, television etc. Haven't heard about it ? Have you heard of the Knights of Columbus and their control of the CIA ? How many directors have been members of that one group ?
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So,.... um, the KoC are now Jesuits? Or Jesuit-controlled?

This would be news to both the KoC and the Jesuits themselves.

Or are you simply anti-Catholic and unaware of the political subdivisions within the RCC? That would make more sense given the other list of things that you're unaware of.
 
joe911 said:
No,your right. Because the terrorists dont consent to been arrested they are free,right? I mean,the CORPORATION made conspiracy to commit terrorism ILLEGAL.BUT it turns out its only a STATUTE so osama and his buddies are ALLOWED to make bombs,conspire to harm innocent civilians,aslong as they dont actually go and carry it out,right? :confused::mad:

You seriously need to re-evaluate your beliefs,sir. People arent just taken to guantanamo for anything,they must be a genuine threat to society.
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What sort of education do you have ?

A man is presumed innocent until he is convicted in a court of law ! Don't you know that ?

A man is entitled to have a hearing of his case and not to be held against his will without a lawyer. He is entitled to hear the case against him. And for his case to be heard. A man is entitled to fair treatment.

But none of these things have happened at Guantanamo Bay. What 'threat' were these people to society ?

Just tell us.

Or just please tell us you are talking sheer nonsense. The whole Guantanamo Bay affair has been a disaster for the reputation of the USA. And everyone knows it.

How about you being arrested for years on mere suspicion ?

This is the stone age. And it's nonsense.
 
Especially, what is it this FOTL movement want in England, specifically? Not pay their council tax? Not insure their cars? Have all the benefits of living in society without contributing to that society?

Shorn of the rhetoric about common law and statutes, and the wild and wacky conspiracy theories, what exactly is it that you are intending to achieve?
 
This is by far the most dangerous and convincing of woo...Because you hear people like Robert Arthur Menard and Mary Elizabeth Croft using all of these complicated words to describe what their doing and it makes it sound like they know their stuff...

I got really into this Freeman woo for a while. I was just weeks away from "filing my UCC-1 financing statement and turning in my Notice of Understanding and Intent"...Luckily I logged on here first and cleared my hallow skull of the poison that had fillied it for the last 5 years.

Hmm....Perhaps my next article should be bout Freeman woo.
 
Congratulations. You have shamed me into accepting your point of view. I think it must have been your spot on characterization of me as a couch potato who has never read the constitution and voted for the people that were on the ballot presented to me. I'm sorry, but I've been too busy watching American Idol and following the happenings of Spencer and Heidi to give a rats a$$ about my precious freedoms. As a new convert, do you know of somebody who would be willing to take my money so as to provide me with more information on this radical new concept of "freedom"? I prefer it in DVD form, since my weakened American mind can no longer stay focused enough to read. Perhaps I should view some youtube videos? Please don't recommend anything that may have conflicting information. Right now I'm very vulnerable, and I don't think my fragile mind could handle it. Please only recommend videos that reinforce my new found perspective.
 
drkitten said:
So,.... um, the KoC are now Jesuits? Or Jesuit-controlled?

This would be news to both the KoC and the Jesuits themselves.

Or are you simply anti-Catholic and unaware of the political subdivisions within the RCC? That would make more sense given the other list of things that you're unaware of.
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The enemies of the great US Constitution were, from the very beginning, the Vatican. Who hated the separation of church and state, for just one example. They have worked tirelessly ever since to destroy it. They funded the Civil War. They assassinated Abraham Lincoln. They have written the Patriot Act. They have sent the American soldiers in their thousands to give their lives in Vietnam. Why ?

Ever read 'Vietnam - why did we go'' ' by Avro Manhattan ?

http://www.archive.org/search.php?query=creator:"Avro Manhattan"

Now, I don't mind having a conversation with anybody who has read it. Or on anything else I've posted on. I am happy to discuss these things. But please, please, DO read it.

Thank You
 
Especially said:
Why not do yourself a favour ? Get a piece of paper and a pen. Sit down and do a search of the list of directors of the CIA from the time it was founded and see how many directors and deputy directors have been members of the Knights of Columbus and other fraternities.

If you can't find any post again here.

Thanks
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Why not do YOURSELF a favor? Get a piece of paper and a pen. Sit down and do a search of the list of CIA directors who were MEN.

This MUST mean there is a secret cabal of men ruling the world making sure that only men CIA directors get selected!

OR...could it be that basic principle of science that correlation does not equal causation?
http://www.nizkor.org/features/fallacies/confusing-cause-and-effect.html
 
Sunray Breaker said:
This is by far the most dangerous and convincing of woo...Because you hear people like Robert Arthur Menard and Mary Elizabeth Croft using all of these complicated words to describe what their doing and it makes it sound like they know their stuff...

I got really into this Freeman woo for a while. I was just weeks away from "filing my UCC-1 financing statement and turning in my Notice of Understanding and Intent"...Luckily I logged on here first and cleared my hallow skull of the poison that had fillied it for the last 5 years.

Hmm....Perhaps my next article should be bout Freeman woo.
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And now you are twice as washed up as when you started, right ? You know better, right ?

Please share with us, here on the forum, what you personally discovered about the freeman movement and what convinced you here that it is untrue. So untrue you are still in the same system.

Looking forward to your reply. It will be great to have it. It will be extremely interesting, in fact. Then we can all see for ourselves what is really true and what is false. Let's keep it real simple so everyone can hear your point of view. And I will reply to what you write.

Regards
 
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Sunray Breaker said:
This is by far the most dangerous and convincing of woo...Because you hear people like Robert Arthur Menard and Mary Elizabeth Croft using all of these complicated words to describe what their doing and it makes it sound like they know their stuff...

I got really into this Freeman woo for a while. I was just weeks away from "filing my UCC-1 financing statement and turning in my Notice of Understanding and Intent"...Luckily I logged on here first and cleared my hallow skull of the poison that had fillied it for the last 5 years.

Hmm....Perhaps my next article should be bout Freeman woo.
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I think Freeman woo is going to be the next big thing for the reasons I described earlier (people looking for scapegoats, and FOTL woo gives a false sense of empowerment). People WANT there to be secret methods of getting back at the MAN so bad that they will believe anything.

Of course, they can file their UCC-1 and NOU all they want, but since the documents aren't based on any legal realities its the same as sending Pizza Hut your Notice of Understanding that you deserve free pizza. Im not so much worried about legions of woos filing meaningless legal documents as I am with them clogging the legal system with this nonsense.
 
Sunray Breaker said:
This is by far the most dangerous and convincing of woo...
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I agree.

That's the problem with "woo" in general. Not because there's anything particularly wrong with believing in things that simply aren't true,... .but when you act in accordance with those beliefs, people can get hurt. Often yourself.

My father-in-law believes that doctors try to kill him, and refuses to get medical attention as a result. I think this belief will take twenty years off his life.

My sister believes that taking out a loan is a sin. I think this belief will condemn her to an impoverished retirement, because she will still be paying rent -- and it may well condemn her children to a poor education because they can't attend a good/expensive college.

My mother believes that electricity leaks out of light sockets unless you put those little plastic plugs in. I haven't bothered to correct her on this because, as far as I can tell, that's a harmless belief.

But FOTL beliefs seem (to me) particularly harmful. The court system doesn't appreciate it when you play silly, "frivolous" games with them. And they're backed up, both socially and legally, with almost unlimited power.

People have paid massive fines from this stuff. People have gone bankrupt from this stuff. People have gone to jail from this stuff. People have lost their houses, their savings, their jobs, from this stuff.
 
Especially said:
A man is entitled to fair treatment.
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That is correct. But not on the grounds of terrorism.

Especially said:
But none of these things have happened at Guantanamo Bay. What 'threat' were these people to society ?
Just tell us.
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*FACEPALM.
What 'threat' are they? And you're asking about my education :/

Especially said:
How about you being arrested for years on mere suspicion ?
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I would never put myself in a position where anyone would have reason to suspect me of any wrongdoing.
 
Especially said:
The enemies of the great US Constitution were, from the very beginning, the Vatican.
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I guess that answers my question. You are so ill-informed that you don't know anything about political divisions within the RCC.

Now, I don't mind having a conversation with anybody who has read it. Or on anything else I've posted on. I am happy to discuss these things. But please, please, DO read it.
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I've read it. It's standard hysterical anti-Catholic propaganda, and as I recall, there's not a single correct sentence in it.

Just because someone publishes drek doesn't mean the drek is true. The fact that this particular drek is published by Chick Publications should have given you pause. This is the same publisher that gave us "Dark Dungeons."

Chick's disregard not only for the facts, but also for common sense and reason, are well-known.
 
Agatha said:
Especially, what is it this FOTL movement want in England, specifically? Not pay their council tax? Not insure their cars? Have all the benefits of living in society without contributing to that society?

Shorn of the rhetoric about common law and statutes, and the wild and wacky conspiracy theories, what exactly is it that you are intending to achieve?
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Hi there Agatha,

Thanks for the most sensible question so far on this thread.

In answer to your question -

'What exactly is it that you are intending to achieve' ?

My answer is simple. The people of England deserve their freedom from the tyranny of government that is no government.

The people of England obey the law of England. That is, the Common Law. They are NOT unlawful. In fact, they obey the law. That's fact number 1 about the Freeman movement. In England, in the USA, in Canada, Australia, New Zealand, South Africa and many other parts of the world. Take close note of it please.

But, between them and the law is a fake system. A counterfeit. Just like the dollar bills they print by the billion. You have one in the USA also. It's called 'government' and it bills you whether you like it or not. It can even shut down your own Constitution and can do what it likes in Congress. It can tax you against your own Constitution. It can make you pay for its own system. It can trash your Constitution before you are even aware of it. The lunatics took over the political system a long, long time ago. And they are still doing it. Heard of Congress ?

There is nothing ahead except slavery if we reject the foundations of the law on which our nations were built. And no corrupt regime, no corrupt corporated judges, lawyers, bankers, and politicians should rob us of our basic rights. Enshrined within our own Constitutions. Why not pull out the plug on the corporate news channels ?

The Common Law.

Have you seen the Youtube of John Quade on 'Common Law' yet ? It should really make you think.

Selfishness has brought us to a crisis. There is no future except to reject fake government and the illegal robbery of your own rights.

As for 'rhetoric' why not find out the difference between Statutes and the Common Law. Do at least this. As a favour to yourself. You can then see if its rhetoric or not. Because one thing is sure - you have not examined these things, have you ?
 
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Especially said:
The Patriot Act has been found to be UNCONSITUTIONAL in courts all across the USA. Check it out. It's an evil nonsense. Hatched out of Jesuit Georgetown University.
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Awesome. Maybe that is why their football program stinks.


geni said:
So you think the break is 1066? Problem is that common law is a product of the 1066 invasion.
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(giggling)

D'rok said:
Thank you. One simple follow-up question. Who makes common law?
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This is a somewhat unfair question to ask a freeper as it seems simple but represents some of the core concepts that make a freeper a freeper, and unfortunately most freepers lack the analytical chops to respond clearly. I used to be a nut, so I have a pretty decent grasp of all of this.


The "common law" just is, like the shape of a circle, like the beauty of a rose, like the taste of honey, like the thrill of victory, like the agony of defeat, like the four sides of a square, like the... ummm... infinite reach of human stupidity. It is innate to all existence and obviously known to all except the hopelessly corrupt.

Judges discover common law, the same way the mathematician discovers the value of pi. A seemingly obscure distinction, but essential in understanding the base theoretical underpinnings of freepers. Law is not created by judges, just discovered.

This is what most call "natural law" theory, and when freepers appeal to "common law," this is generally what they mean. It is a popular school of thought around the time of American independence.

The problem with all of this is that the underlying assumption, that all people share the an innate concept of right and wrong is true to a point about obvious matters and is workable in rural culturally homogeneous societies circa 1750 but breaks down as societies become more complex and diverse. While "don't kill for no reason" is an "obvious" moral rule that to some level can be seen as innate, it boggles the mind how one could "discover" traffic laws like speed limits in cities. (note the general freeper hostility to traffic codes and regulatory laws)

Likewise, as societies become diverse, "common sense" things for someone in England like "women should not go topless in public" is nothing near common sense for an African native. for whom going topless is a traditional indication of being unmarried.

For most people it becomes clear that some level of legal positivism, that the law is what we say it is rather than some innate "true law," is necessary for society to function. Freepers are the extreme end of refusing to do this and then building wildly strange analytical frameworks to fit their prejudices and beliefs into the "natural law" framework.
 
Especially said:
Why not do yourself a favour ? Get a piece of paper and a pen. Sit down and do a search of the list of directors of the CIA from the time it was founded and see how many directors and deputy directors have been members of the Knights of Columbus and other fraternities.

If you can't find any post again here.

Thanks
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If by other Fraternies you mean the Masons, last time I looked The Masons and the Catholic Church were not exactly the best of friends.
 
drkitten said:
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But FOTL beliefs seem (to me) particularly harmful. The court system doesn't appreciate it when you play silly, "frivolous" games with them. And they're backed up, both socially and legally, with almost unlimited power.

People have paid massive fines from this stuff. People have gone bankrupt from this stuff. People have gone to jail from this stuff. People have lost their houses, their savings, their jobs, from this stuff.
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I read in another thread on this that this happened to a FOTL over at TPUC and thier responce was "the judge should be fired for not knowing the law". Its an endless circle of woo.
 
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