Roman Polanski arrested (discuss)...

[Bosozoku]

Just because there seems to be some confusion, here is a link to California Penal Code Section 261.5 (d), presumably the statute Polanski was charged under.

The pertinent part of 261.5(d) says "Any person 21 years of age or older who engages in an act of unlawful sexual intercourse with a minor who is under 16 years of age is guilty of either a misdemeanor or a felony, and shall be punished by imprisonment in a county jail not exceeding one year, or by imprisonment in the state prison for two, three, or four years."

I should preface this by saying I am not a lawyer and I don't know anything about California law. However, it looks like this is a strict liability crime, where Polanski's mental state regarding the crime is irrelevant. So whether the sex was "consensual" (by the dictionary definition) is irrelevant.

 

[Information Analyst]

Is that an excuse then for rape? I was high?

So you would expect someone's judgement to be 100% sound on drugs as not?

 

[Information Analyst]

I find it rather interesting that a 13 year old girl is expected to be a good judge of bad neighbourhoods or dangerous situations.

Yet in most jurisdictions the same child would have been old enough to be held responsible for a crime they commited. That's the contradiction inherent in most legal systems.

 

[johnny karate]

So you would expect someone's judgement to be 100% sound on drugs as not?

Information Analyst's Tip for Rapists: Make sure you're drunk or high before you commit rape. That way, you can claim impaired judgement.

 

[Pardalis]

Which he also took himself.

Apparently, the alcohol didn't affect his judgement, since he repeatedly asked her about her period, and then decided to sodomize her to make sure he wouldn't impregnate her.

He knew exactly what he was doing.

And a Canadian's on Australia geography, it seems....

You don't know what you're talking about.

 

[Information Analyst]

Information Analyst's Tip for Rapists: Make sure you're drunk or high before you commit rape. That way, you can claim impaired judgement.

Naturally I never implied anything of the sort. However, a person's state of mind when they commited a whole variety of crimes has a bearing on how they are punished. As I said previously, I think Polanski should get four years, which it seems - thanks to Bosozoku's post - is actually the maximum he can receive. Probably a good job I'm not a judge, eh?

 

[Information Analyst]

Apparently, the alcohol didn't affect his judgement, since he repeatedly asked her about her period, and then decided to sodomize her to make sure he wouldn't impregnate her.

He knew exactly what he was doing.

Is that principle were true, nobody would ever drink/drug-drive, would they? Susbtances affects people's mind - fact.

You don't know what you're talking about.

No, just a flippant observation based on the surface details of your claimed location, someone else's claimed location, and where you suggested they were from. My apologies for not being telepathic and knowing the reality for sure.

 

[Pardalis]

Is that principle were true, nobody would ever drink/drug-drive, would they? Susbtances affects people's mind - fact.

Alcohol affects mostly inhibitions, reflexes and motor skills. Polanski thought ahead and made the necessary to avoid getting her pregnant, which shows he was in control of his thoughts, and was aware of the consequences of his actions and took a deliberate course of action accordingly.

No, just a flippant observation based on the surface details of your claimed location, someone else's claimed location, and where you suggested they were from. My apologies for not being telepathic and knowing the reality for sure.

Are you drunk?

 

[johnny karate]

Naturally I never implied anything of the sort. However, a person's state of mind when they commited a whole variety of crimes has a bearing on how they are punished.

And if that "state of mind" was willfully imposed upon themselves prior to their crimes, that should also be taken into account. Polanski chose to consume alcohol and Qualuudes, just like he chose to have sex with a 13-year old. The former in no way serves as an excuse for the latter.

 

[varwoche]

Which he also took himself.

This doesn't even rise to the level of irrelevant.

Your words, not anyone else's here.

True. It's a restatement of your argument in plain language.

 

[Information Analyst]

Alcohol affects mostly inhibitions, reflexes and motor skills. Polanski thought ahead and made the necessary to avoid getting her pregnant, which shows he was in control of his thoughts, and was aware of the consequences of his actions and took a deliberate course of action accordingly.

It also affects people's judgement, otherwise some of them wouldn't realise that it's also affecting their inhibitions, reflexes, etc. People drink-drive precisely because they can't rationally appreciate that they're not in a fit state to.

Are you drunk?

Oh dear. Why don't you just go back and read the posts in order - it's not rocket science....

 

[John Jones]

People drink-drive precisely because they can't rationally appreciate that they're not in a fit state to

.

And being drunk in no way mitigates their culpability for drunk driving. You seem to insinuate that being under the influence should mitigate Polanski's culpability for his actions.

 

[Information Analyst]

And being drunk in no way mitigates their culpability for drunk driving.

In most jurisdictions, someone who kills because they run someone over while they are drunk would not punished as harshly as someone who gets into their car stone-cold sober and runs someone over deliberately, would they?

You seem to insinuate that being under the influence should mitigate Polanski's culpability for his actions.

No, I am merely pointing out the double and contradictory standard that people are applying.

 

[Information Analyst]

True. It's a restatement of your argument in plain language.

Only in your opinion, not mine.

 

[Belz...]

It's a bit like a time-capsule of the late 70's has just been opened.

And what we found inside was rotten.

 

[Belz...]

How the **** does that wash.

It doesn't. Or shouldn't, anyway.

 

[Belz...]

However, it is a serious crime in the United States to place your hand on the bible, swear an oath to tell the truth and lie in a court of law.

Silly question: Can you swear on something else ? I assume they have scenarios for non-Christians.

 

[Rasmus]

In most jurisdictions, someone who kills because they run someone over while they are drunk would not punished as harshly as someone who gets into their car stone-cold sober and runs someone over deliberately, would they?

No, but the key term here is "deliberately".

 

[Skeptic Guy]

to go back to the polanski case, in case this was not clear from my previous post, lostangeles, I think polanski should go in prison. But I am simply disagreeing on some point (was it a real rape or not ? My POV is (apparently) the same as Lowe above : we do not know, we can only say he was condemend for unlawful sex with a minor which is NAMED statuatory rape in that state, but is not per see the same as a rape, it is sex with a consenting but not legally allowed minor. We sadly have no way with the info given to say if there was a real rape or not, as with the info given it is a she-said, he-said situation. Now if there had been a medical examination, that would be something else).

ETA: And yes it make a huge difference for me (and as far as I can tell legally too) if a 13 year old willingly has sex with a 40 year old idiot, or the same 40 year old idiot rape the 13 year old. Sadly we have apparently no way to know which way it went. If polanski demonstrably had raped the girl then I say, throw the cell key out. But we cannot make such ad-hoc judgement without evidence.

If you read the transcripts, it is very clear that it was rape. It was non-consentual. It is convenient to say that the 13-year old girl lied.

 

[johnny karate]

In most jurisdictions, someone who kills because they run someone over while they are drunk would not punished as harshly as someone who gets into their car stone-cold sober and runs someone over deliberately, would they?

You seem to be implying Polanski didn't deliberately have sex with a 13 year-old, when he most certainly did. Lame "impaired judgement" arguments aside, Polanski was known to have a proclivity for young girls, admitted on the legal record he was aware of his victim's age, and to this day has not expressed remorse for his actions. He knowingly and willfully raped a 13 year-old girl. That he might have been high at the time is immaterial.