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Merged Skeptics vs. Knowers/Believers

wollery said:
There are no arguments to compel anyone. There's really no evidence either.

Let me demonstrate;

Believer: I saw something that defies the laws of physics!
Sceptic: Are you sure that's what you saw?
Believer: Yes, and you can't explain it.
Sceptic: No, I can't explain it, but that doesn't mean it's an alien craft.
Believer: Yes it does.
Sceptic: No it doesn't.
Believer: Yes it does.
Sceptic: No it doesn't.
Believer: Yes it does.
Sceptic: No it doesn't.
Believer: Yes it does.
Sceptic: No it doesn't.
Believer: Yes it does.
Sceptic: No it doesn't.

Continue ad nauseam......
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Gord_in_Toronto said:
OK. But . . . how did you know how far they were away?
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King of the Americas said:
Well, I have 'some' experience, watching other flying objects that I KNOW the identity of- air shows, the Shuttle re-entering the atmosphere, airliners, and even satellites.

I wouldn't say I 'know' how far away these things were, I'd merely estimate...
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Fishstick said:
It's very hard, even for experienced people, to judge an object's speed/size when it's high in the sky because there are no reference points. The chinese lantern sightings make this obvious as well.
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King of the Americas said:
When and where did I attempt to do either of those things?

I've seen planes turn, by banking. These objects didn't do this. I don't know how big they were, I just know that when they combined, the result was 4 X bigger than the 2 individuals. The outward appearance didn't 'double' when the came together, it quadrupled. That didn't compute.

These things moved, took positions and hovered, made 90 degree angle turns, and 'combined'....

I DON'T know how big they were or what speeds they achieved.
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Thank you for demonstrating what I said earlier. :rolleyes:
 
Marduk said:
your self deluded then, there is no evidence of Aliens in human history, did you forget we went into that in depth and you were unable to provide any evidence at all. You refused to accept all the evidence to the contrary and based that belief on some paintings made during the renaissance which did not show ufos

so you have based that opinion on your belief rather than facts, this makes your belief worthless, you might as well get yourself over to the religion section and attempt to tell people that God has appeared to you and told you hes going to destroy san francisco, what you are saying and what Dani el was saying are on the same level of credibility. This is not a case where anything you have said has swayed anyone, all you have done is made people realise that you have allowed your imagination to rule your life
:boggled:

pretty much everyone here would change their minds in an instant if there was any credible evidence, no one is shooting down your belief because they don't also want to believe. they are shooting down your belief because its fantasy
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It always amazes me that ignorant can be so arrogant...

I never said there WAS evidence of "aliens" anywhere. Pay closer attention.
 
wollery said:
Actually, you're a step ahead of yourself there.

Unexplained does NOT EQUAL "non-human" craft.
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Agreed.

I make the 'leap' to craft because of the seemingly orchestrated movements they made in concert with one another.

The nature of their movements escalated, culminating in the combining of two of them.

I found it to be a "demonstration", and not at all like something natural, random, or varied.
 
King of the Americas said:
Agreed.

I make the 'leap' to craft because of the seemingly orchestrated movements they made in concert with one another.

The nature of their movements escalated, culminating in the combining of two of them.

I found it to be a "demonstration", and not at all like something natural, random, or varied.
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But you don't know. And you don't know how big they were, or how far away they were, or how fast they were going. And neither does anyone else. So the "Knower/Believer" doesn't really know anything at all in this case, other than you believe you saw something that you can just barely describe and can't begin to explain. Okay, got it. :boggled:
 
King of the Americas said:
Agreed.

I make the 'leap' to craft because of the seemingly orchestrated movements they made in concert with one another.

The nature of their movements escalated, culminating in the combining of two of them.

I found it to be a "demonstration", and not at all like something natural, random, or varied.
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Demonstration?

Sounds like confirmation bias to me. You say you know what aircraft movement looks like because you've been to lots of airshows, so when you see something in the sky that moves in a similar way, that's the connection that your brain makes.
 
King of the Americas said:
Have you ever been in or seen a t-bone accident?

You're going forward, then WHAMMO! Now you going sideways. This is the ONLY way I know of for a human piloted vehicle to make a 90 degree 'turn'. And it never turns out well for the one that got turned. Humans don't do well through such g-forces...

These things made it look easy.

And when it looked like two WERE going to collide, that just became ONE really large version of themselves.

What planes do 'we' have that can do that?
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Of course, the alternative explanation, that you have not considered, is that what you saw was an illusion - perfectly normal movement which from your angle appeared to be a right-angle turn. Such circumstances are extremely easy to contrive. For example, if an object is flying directly towards you, and banks to make a turn, you will see it first apparently stationery, then it will suddenly move off without the appearance of acceleration. The illusion is that it has defied the laws of physics - that the G-forces involved in such an apparently sudden acceleration would squish any pilot. But in fact it's perfectly normal, ordinary motion which from your angle looks impossible.

Just because it looks impossible doesn't mean that it is.
 
King of the Americas said:
It always amazes me that ignorant can be so arrogant...

I never said there WAS evidence of "aliens" anywhere. Pay closer attention.
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lost your balls again, everyone knows the only reason you arent claiming ET is because you think its more credible to claim something else

you got that wrong like most other things
:p
 
King of the Americas said:
Agreed.

I make the 'leap' to craft because of the seemingly orchestrated movements they made in concert with one another.

The nature of their movements escalated, culminating in the combining of two of them.

I found it to be a "demonstration", and not at all like something natural, random, or varied.
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was it cloudy ?
were they silent ?
if so I've seen something very similar
 
Also, anyone claiming humans are at the top of the "evolutionary ladder", or even saying that there is such a thing as an evolutionary ladder, does not have much experience with how evolution works. It's not like it's a linear straight line.
 
GeeMack said:
But you don't know. And you don't know how big they were, or how far away they were, or how fast they were going. And neither does anyone else. So the "Knower/Believer" doesn't really know anything at all in this case, other than you believe you saw something that you can just barely describe and can't begin to explain. Okay, got it. :boggled:
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This is inaccurate...

I KNOW I saw a "something" that I can barely describe, don't fully understand, and can't begin to explain
 
wollery said:
Demonstration?

Sounds like confirmation bias to me. You say you know what aircraft movement looks like because you've been to lots of airshows, so when you see something in the sky that moves in a similar way, that's the connection that your brain makes.
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Right.

And the movements these things made was completely and totally different than what I had seen.

I've been to a couple of air shows, I've seen high flying airliners, the shuttle re-entering the atmosphere, and even a satellite or two.

These things operated in ways unfamiliar to me...
 
Your request is illogical. The moment someone answers your question they are no longer fence sitters, no matter which way they lean.

Oh, and you can't argue something false to be true, no matter how many rhetorical "points" you believe yourself to score. That approach to discourse is flawed at best, and childish at worst.

You made a clumsy attempt att poisoning the well, but unfortunately used a brand of poison that is fluorescent green and comes with a health and safety warning in neon.
 
arthwollipot said:
Of course, the alternative explanation, that you have not considered, is that what you saw was an illusion - perfectly normal movement which from your angle appeared to be a right-angle turn. Such circumstances are extremely easy to contrive. For example, if an object is flying directly towards you, and banks to make a turn, you will see it first apparently stationery, then it will suddenly move off without the appearance of acceleration. The illusion is that it has defied the laws of physics - that the G-forces involved in such an apparently sudden acceleration would squish any pilot. But in fact it's perfectly normal, ordinary motion which from your angle looks impossible.

Just because it looks impossible doesn't mean that it is.
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Alright, if it was 'one' turn of an objected headed right for me, then I'd concede it could have been an illusion. This was 7 objects, and they weren't headed for me, and they weren't only located in one area in the sky, from one viewing angle...

And how would this explanation work to describe the two combining?

Even if your example IS one way something can appear to zoom off, from one point, this wouldn't explain a 90 degree angle 'turn'.

Yours is an 'unlikely' explanation...
 
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