No Explosives Here?

atavisms said:
yes sir, I see many many problems with it. For years that was all I saw. I have no clue how it was done. The whole seems seems incredibly unlikely, dont know how NORAD works, the NRO, war games, military explosives, etc, etc. These are things that could keep any intelligent person dismissive of the possibility forever.
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Welcome to the age of the internet, almost all the info for any of the things you listed above is just a google search (and lots of reading) away. I would also like to point out that a lot of the people here work for, and/or with many of the of the items above, but they may not feel like spending all their free time doing your homework.
 
Arus808 said:
Originally Posted by johnny karate View Post
Please provide a list of witnesses and on-site investigators who believe explosives were used to bring down any of the WTC buidlings on 9/11.

He has skipped over this now three time since its been reposted, and responded to several posts after this request has been made.

I suggest that no one engage this fraud until he answers the question above.
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bc you just dont get it! I DONT NEED ANY AUTHORITY TO TELL ME SOMETHING SO OBVIOUS!!

'appeal to authority' is a logical fallacy, as in, makes no sense from a logical perspective. -

(there are many such witnesses. (me for one) but on site investigators?
You mean like the guys who put the together the fema bpat?
what the frak do you think are the implications of their examination and report? Not gravity and offices fires I can assure you that!
but you guys do not get that. that's fine.. Im not trying to convince anyone. I respect your right to an opposing opinion and welcomeit.


Quotes from George Orwell I admire:

Who controls the past controls the future. Who controls the present controls the past.

If liberty means anything at all, it means the right to tell people what they do not want to hear.

To see what is in front of one's nose needs a constant struggle.

Every generation imagines itself to be more intelligent than the one that went before it, and wiser than the one that comes after it

Political language. . . is designed to make lies sound truthful and murder respectable, and to give an appearance of solidity to pure wind
 
atavisms said:
These are things that could keep any intelligent person dismissive of the possibility forever..
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Do you really think everyone is as inept in their job as you'd like to make it out? I'm sure you are kept dismissive at your profession, but for the most part people in the know are pretty wise. Your presumption is that everyone doesn't give a s$!t about what they do. People actually do care. They aren't as dismissive as like you'd like to think.
 
atavisms said:
perhaps you do not know them all. Either way, its a question only you can answer.
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You have said many times that you don't have or understand all the facts, and you have also said your theory is based on your un-informed opinion.
atavisms said:
You 'just look at it" I have an informed opinion.
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Which is why this projection on to me is very confusing.

atavisms said:
I do not disagree with, or even have the wherewithal to, or care really, in terms of my own certainty on the matter, about Jones. I think he is great for what he is doing but if you are going to distill one point out of my initial post it should be that no authority required here.
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...or "I don't care what Jones has to say, because I looked at it". How close am I?
 
atavisms said:
bc you just dont get it! I DONT NEED ANY AUTHORITY TO TELL ME SOMETHING SO OBVIOUS!!

'appeal to authority' is a logical fallacy, as in, makes no sense from a logical perspective. -

(there are many such witnesses. (me for one) but on site investigators?
You mean like the guys who put the together the fema bpat?
what the frak do you think are the implications of their examination and report? Not gravity and offices fires I can assure you that!
but you guys do not get that. that's fine.. Im not trying to convince anyone. I respect your right to an opposing opinion and welcomeit.


Quotes from George Orwell I admire:

Who controls the past controls the future. Who controls the present controls the past.

If liberty means anything at all, it means the right to tell people what they do not want to hear.

To see what is in front of one's nose needs a constant struggle.

Every generation imagines itself to be more intelligent than the one that went before it, and wiser than the one that comes after it

Political language. . . is designed to make lies sound truthful and murder respectable, and to give an appearance of solidity to pure wind
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You sound like a zealot.
 
atavisms said:
bc you just dont get it! I DONT NEED ANY AUTHORITY TO TELL ME SOMETHING SO OBVIOUS!!

'appeal to authority' is a logical fallacy, as in, makes no sense from a logical perspective.
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So is arguing from ignorance

Appeal to Authority
Explanation
An appeal to authority is an argument from the fact that a person judged to be an authority affirms a proposition to the claim that the proposition is true.

Appeals to authority are always deductively fallacious; even a legitimate authority speaking on his area of expertise may affirm a falsehood, so no testimony of any authority is guaranteed to be true.

However, the informal fallacy occurs only when the authority cited either (a) is not an authority, or (b) is not an authority on the subject on which he is being cited. If someone either isn’t an authority at all, or isn’t an authority on the subject about which they’re speaking, then that undermines the value of their testimony.
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triforcharity said:
Paper and.......and........and......

Carpet desks petitions chairs tvs computers plastics more wood stuff on desks curtains cleaning supplies should I continue?? And yes, Paper. Thousands of pounds of paper. couches clothes people trash..and yet, should I continue??? Ok,
Electrical componets HVAC equipment ceiling tile wire insulation
oh, wait....is there more???
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Just simply ignore the reality huh?
Doesn't matter that all this stuff was pulverized, and most of it sent outside the tower in an 800 foot radial pattern! These were EACH 1350' tall, had short burning fires on a number of floors very high up in the towers.
Have you seen the debris field?

YOU CANNOT JUST DISMISS THIS! (and still be viewed as reasonable by most people)
 
that is a pic of a building that was destroyed by an airplane impacting causing fires to spread through 10 floors, thereby weakening all structural support causing a global failure a total collapse.

CD's do NOT cause that type of destruction.
NO was any evdience of CD's found

YOU CAN:T look at picture and say "CD!!!"
 
atavisms said:
Just simply ignore the reality huh?
Doesn't matter that all this stuff was pulverized, and most of it sent outside the tower in an 800 foot radial pattern! These were EACH 1350' tall, had short burning fires on a number of floors very high up in the towers.
Have you seen the debris field?

YOU CANNOT JUST DISMISS THIS! (and still be viewed as reasonable by most people)
[qimg]http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/imagehosting/thum_349174abd5befe8ed2.jpg[/qimg]
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Oh this will be fun.
<sitting back with popcorn>

you really did open a can of worms twoofie... not only did tri "see this pile" he was WORKING ON IT as a firefighter. He was THERE on 9/11. This should be fun.

Now Tri, don't get banned over this.
 
WildCat said:
I don't think it would have been nearly as big. If it had been a CD the lower supports would have bene cut, and thus the breakup of the building would have been at ground level rather than nearly a thousand feet above ground, and wouldn't have scattered as far.
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Unless you were looking to dispose of evidence (planes remains)and possibly, the buildings had to go as part of the deal for whatever reason.. Who knows. The point is, it happened.

Another part of the story:

These 3 planes that made their targets went to cruising height, were taken over by men with small weapons (box cutter are razors! (Not swords) and yet not one pilot or co-pilot was able to hit this simple distress code (7700) in his key pad? It makes no sense.

Try that on uc keyboard 10key pad, 7700, its an instant
When hit, it displays HJK to ground control and us their emergency distress code (I believe was thecase?) and that is what they are trained to do. Instantly. yet, mysteriously, not one person in a cockpit was able to do this, out of 8 or 9 people was is it? not even sure, 4 flight crews!

All the planes went through the same scenario: they obtained cruising height, the transponders failed, they were steered to their targets, which were then hit with uncanny precision. No interference from anyone. Not NORAD, no one.

Now ask yourself. You are 30k over Ohio and have just taken over a commercial airliner with 3 other guys, u'v have never flown a jetliner, u'r young, and scared, and now your job is to find and hit the twin towers. All you have is a compass for direction.

Do you find the the towers, how?

This story besmirches, not just common sense, but the names of those brave professional pilots, (2 or 3 of whom were "tough Vietnam vets"), and flight crews who would have all died many times before handing over their jetliner over to terrorist scum.

The flt 93 story makes no sense either bc the debris field was spread over many miles and the people extremely blasted apart, yet the claim is that the plane hit ground intact// People were on the scene immediately.
 
Arus808 said:
that is a pic of a building that was destroyed by an airplane impacting causing fires to spread through 10 floors, thereby weakening all structural support causing a global failure a total collapse.

CD's do NOT cause that type of destruction.
NO was any evdience of CD's found

YOU CAN:T look at picture and say "CD!!!"
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That is true, I agree. def not std CD.
(WTC 7 is much closer in that regard)

What you can say about 1&2 for certain is that it was extremely energetic.
and the towers were designed to support themselves many times over.
What they cannot do is simply explode to smithereens bc the of the lightest (compared to the entire thing) bits at the top crushing all the way down on them through gravity!
lol! it's just completely counter-intuitive, imo.
Support themselves is exactly what they were so well 'over-designed' to do.

After the planes hit, the weight simply shifted to other beams in this 'highly redundant structure' (-paraphrase of Thomas Eager mit)
 
atavisms said:
What you can say about 1&2 for certain is that it was extremely energetic.
and the towers were designed to support themselves many times over.
What they cannot do is simply explode to smithereens bc the of the lightest (compared to the entire thing) bits at the top crushing all the way down on them through gravity!
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Why are you comparing them to the entire thing? Why not compare them to the first floor below the impact zone?

Then the floor below that.
Then the floor below that.
Then the floor below that.

...
 
atavisms said:
Now ask yourself. You are 30k over Ohio and have just taken over a commercial airliner with 3 other guys, u'v have never flown a jetliner, u'r young, and scared, and now your job is to find and hit the twin towers. All you have is a compass for direction.

Do you find the the towers, how?
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You have not studied 911 at all have you?

That is a completely incompetant post.
 
atavisms said:
Unless you were looking to dispose of evidence (planes remains)and possibly, the buildings had to go as part of the deal for whatever reason.. Who knows. The point is, it happened.
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Oh twoof. Now you are trying to shift shift shift from explosives to another debunked part? really?

Ok, here we go
Another part of the story:

These 3 planes that made their targets went to cruising height, were taken over by men with small weapons (box cutter are razors! (Not swords) and yet not one pilot or co-pilot was able to hit this simple distress code (7700) in his key pad? It makes no sense.
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1. Boxcutters are freaking sharp. 5 men armed with box cutters and 4 inch folding knives (which were LEGAL prior to 9/11).
2. All of the hijackers were in business or first class in the front of the planes.
3. They used mace and pepper spray.
4. What were the policies in place on and before 9/11 to deal with hijackers? Huh? (they were for all airlines, do what the hijacker says, in case there is another hijacker with a BOMB on board, and try to get the jet on the ground.)

How tough is it for 5 men to overpower 1 stewardess/steward and slice them up with box cutters and knives? Then spray the area near the front kitchen area with pepper spray. Then they call the pilot, maybe cutting someone up on the phone. The pilots open the door and that is it. They walk in and cut the pilots throats while they are flying. What can you do when someone comes up behind you and cuts your throat with a razor?
Try that on uc keyboard 10key pad, 7700, its an instant
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Monday morning quarterbacking. I love it. Please piss on the dead pilots some more.

When hit, it displays HJK to ground control and us their emergency distress code (I believe was thecase?) and that is what they are trained to do. Instantly. yet, mysteriously, not one person in a cockpit was able to do this, out of 8 or 9 people was is it? not even sure, 4 flight crews!
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Now if the hijackers did it intelligently, they cut up some people then had the steward/stewardess call the pilot and have them open the cockpit without letting them know.

it is really rather simple.

All the planes went through the same scenario: they obtained cruising height, the transponders failed
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LIE. Their transponders were turned OFF by the hijackers. But unfortunately your lack of knowledge of RADAR shows through.. so again argument from ignorance.

, they were steered to their targets, which were then hit with uncanny precision.
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Again you use words that do not mean what you think they mean. Uncanny precision? really? Twoof LIE again.

No interference from anyone. Not NORAD, no one.
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Prior to 9/11 how many hijacked jets were flown into buildings? SOP for terrorist hijackings was "do what they say, get the jet on the ground, wait to be rescued."

Ah the NORAD LIE. again you really need to do 5 minutes of basic research... please please please use the truther lie about 10 minute jet intercepts... pretty please

Now ask yourself. You are 30k over Ohio and have just taken over a commercial airliner with 3 other guys, u'v have never flown a jetliner, u'r young, and scared, and now your job is to find and hit the twin towers. All you have is a compass for direction.
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Youve never flown on a jetliner? REally? how did they get to the US in the first place? Did they swim? 4 of the hijackers were certified pilots with over 500 hours of flight time.

what we actually see is HOW bad of pilots they really were.

Do you find the the towers, how?
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truther strawman. trained pilots with access to the maps. It would be EASY to do.

This story besmirches, not just common sense, but the names of those brave professional pilots, (2 or 3 of whom were "tough Vietnam vets"), and flight crews who would have all died many times before handing over their jetliner over to terrorist scum.
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truther lies and strawman.
the procedure was and i state it again. Do what the hijackers say in case there is a BOMB on the jet. Get it on the ground. Let the rescue teams work. As smart and tough military fliers, they would realize where it was a good place to fight them (on the ground) vs bad places to fight them (in the air)

The flt 93 story makes no sense either bc the debris field was spread over many miles and the people extremely blasted apart, yet the claim is that the plane hit ground intact// People were on the scene immediately.
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like with your other BS, please PROVE IT
 
Again our "esl student" (sock puppet for HI) uses words he does not understand. Reading for comprehension is a good thing.

atavisms said:
That is true, I agree. def not std CD.
(WTC 7 is much closer in that regard)

What you can say about 1&2 for certain is that it was extremely energetic.
and the towers were designed to support themselves many times over.
What they cannot do is simply explode to smithereens bc the of the lightest (compared to the entire thing) bits at the top crushing all the way down on them through gravity!
Click to expand...
I love it.
IF NIST is wrong, and the FEMA reports are wrong, then you should be able to find dozens of (if not hundreds of) peer reviewed engineering journals which say they are. Find one, in any language.
 
atavisms said:
Now ask yourself. You are 30k over Ohio and have just taken over a commercial airliner with 3 other guys, u'v have never flown a jetliner, u'r young, and scared, and now your job is to find and hit the twin towers. All you have is a compass for direction.
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You really should try to read this

Perfect Soldiers: The 9/11 Hijackers: Who They Were, Why They Did It (Hardcover)
by Terry Mcdermott (Author)
Here is the link if you want to actually educate yourself. Buy it and then read it. (we already know you won't, but hey I'm writing for the lurkers.
http://www.amazon.com/Perfect-Soldiers-Hijackers-They-Were/dp/0060584696
 
atavisms said:
yet not one pilot or co-pilot was able to hit this simple distress code (7700) in his key pad? It makes no sense.

Try that on uc keyboard 10key pad, 7700, its an instant
.
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Now try it while having your throat slit and you might have a realitice simulation.
 
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