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Referral to a Naturopath by a doctor

lionking

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My eldest daughter has been troubled by non-stop headaches and has tests with a neurologist coming up in a couple of months. When she asked what could be done in the meantime he referred her to a Naturopath.

Now I know naturopathy is quackery and that the best we can hope for is the placebo effect. But can any damage be done by the useless herbal remedies she will be asked to take? Should I say anything, at the risk of being accused of contradicting her doctor? What, if anything, would you do?
 
Now I know naturopathy is quackery and that the best we can hope for is the placebo effect. But can any damage be done by the useless herbal remedies she will be asked to take?


It depends on what they are, but potentially, yes.
 
I'd gone through the roof. Ask the doctor for the proof regarding the treatment he is suggesting and if there are none ask him how on earth a educated physician can suggest placebo as a treatment for a real disease. I know a lot of doctors suggest various herbal cures out of the "even if it does no good it can't harm" way of thinking but i'll bet it will cost you money right?

Besides, not all herbs are safe and yes damage CAN be done.

It sounds to me like a standard answer a doctor may give to a patient just to silence the patient for a while and it really annoy me. A well known doctor here in Denmark was sacked from his Radio Job because he promoted herbal cures that was totally unproven and sometimes proven NOT to work whilst giving medical advice to listeners.
 
See, my daughter is a teacher, and quite intelligent, but how can I contradict her doctor, who I obviously can't talk to?
 
See, my daughter is a teacher, and quite intelligent, but how can I contradict her doctor, who I obviously can't talk to?

If your daughter is an adult then I guess you have to leave her to make her own decisions. I would probably have a chat with her and point out that this treatment is a lot of nonsense and she really should go back to the doctor.

If it really annoys you then I guess there is nothing to stop you going back to the doctor and having a conversation with him about why he is recommending nonsense therapies.
 
There are many articles here http://www.naturowatch.org/ which you and your daughter can peruse. It is true that herbs are not necessarily safe, let alone effective; but the situation is worse. The naturos use bogus diagnostic methods to arrive at bogus diagnoses. Following that, they may offer dangerous, non-herbal treatments; such as "detoxification" or chelation.
 
There are many articles here http://www.naturowatch.org/ which you and your daughter can peruse. It is true that herbs are not necessarily safe, let alone effective; but the situation is worse. The naturos use bogus diagnostic methods to arrive at bogus diagnoses. Following that, they may offer dangerous, non-herbal treatments; such as "detoxification" or chelation.
So why on earth did a doctor make the referral? We are not a third world nation and have very strict doctor registration procedures. It beggers belief.
 
I'm a bit confused- was this advice from the neurologist or her GP?

You could point out what most of us know, but often ignore- namely that doctors are no smarter than anyone else and have their wierd beliefs and biases just like the rest of us. You could ask her to ask for evidence.

It might also be worth asking your daughter EXACTLY what was said by both parties.
(People tend to miss a lot of details out when they report conversations to a third party). Is it possible for instance that she said something like "Would it be worth seeing a naturopath?" and he said "It couldn't do any harm to try?" - which is functionally the same as advising her to see a naturopath, but actually may just be a bloke with no idea what a naturopath is , just waffling.
If the doctor feels the headaches are psychosomatic in origin, stress related, whatever, he/she may feel the placebo effect of seeing a herbalist might actually be enough to help - on the basis that anything that relaxes your daughter may help. He might as easily have suggested long walks in the countryside or taking up yoga. He may feel that if it does help, that would be supportive of a stress diagnosis.

A lot of persistent headaches seem to be due ultimately to stress, manifesting through things like muscle tension, bad posture and the like. If he has failed to find an organic cause, he may feel that what's needed is to make your daughter feel she is "taking control" of her problem. I'm guessing here.
I know schoolteaching can be a chronically stressful job. My guess- and all the usual caveats apply- would be she doesn't get nearly enough relaxation time. Take up yoga? Walk at least 30 minutes before bed? This sort of thing sounds banal, but is easy to try and just might help- and this may be what he's really doing, trying to divert her behaviour to see if it helps the chronic problem.

There are fads and fashions among doctors, who are part of our shared culture after all. Thirty years ago he might have advised seeing a shrink.

I do know one GP who regularly advises patients in a certain group (mainly female aged 50-70) to visit an aromatherapist masseur. His reasoning is that this group of patients appear in his surgery frequently- sometimes weekly- and appear to have absolutely nothing clinically wrong with them so far as he can see. They tend to be single, childless, or mothers whose kids are grown, and a shade more health obsessed than is good for them (his words, not mine). There is absolutely nothing he can do for them clinically, but he has found they mostly report feeling better for the aromatherapy thing , and he sees a lot less of them. So from his point of view he actually is helping them.

Maybe this doc just happens to know a naturopath. I'd be concerned only if I found he was recommending a specific practice which turned out to be his wife or someone.

On balance though, I think I'd try the long walks or yoga first- either should help any cause that a naturopath could help and they would be cheaper and probably safer, though I suppose there's hazard even in a walk, particularly for a woman alone. Nothing is totally risk free.
 
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Good post Soapy Sam.

Firstly, it was her GP who recommended a Naturopath, and given that Fiona (shorter than saying "my daughter") was desparate for some relief she may very well have said "are you sure there is nothing you can do?"

I hope it is stress related. She's only been a teacher for three years and is in a tough, multi-cultural, low income school. She and her partner have also just moved into a new house. Any other causes of these headaches are things we just don't want to think about.

I hope you are right and the doctor knew that he was just hoping for a placebo-like reaction. I fear that many doctors recently educated give too much credence to "complementary medicine".
 
I'm a bit confused- was this advice from the neurologist or her GP?

You could point out what most of us know, but often ignore- namely that doctors are no smarter than anyone else and have their wierd beliefs and biases just like the rest of us. You could ask her to ask for evidence.

It might also be worth asking your daughter EXACTLY what was said by both parties.
(People tend to miss a lot of details out when they report conversations to a third party). Is it possible for instance that she said something like "Would it be worth seeing a naturopath?" and he said "It couldn't do any harm to try?" - which is functionally the same as advising her to see a naturopath, but actually may just be a bloke with no idea what a naturopath is , just waffling.
If the doctor feels the headaches are psychosomatic in origin, stress related, whatever, he/she may feel the placebo effect of seeing a herbalist might actually be enough to help - on the basis that anything that relaxes your daughter may help. He might as easily have suggested long walks in the countryside or taking up yoga. He may feel that if it does help, that would be supportive of a stress diagnosis.

A lot of persistent headaches seem to be due ultimately to stress, manifesting through things like muscle tension, bad posture and the like. If he has failed to find an organic cause, he may feel that what's needed is to make your daughter feel she is "taking control" of her problem. I'm guessing here.
I know schoolteaching can be a chronically stressful job. My guess- and all the usual caveats apply- would be she doesn't get nearly enough relaxation time. Take up yoga? Walk at least 30 minutes before bed? This sort of thing sounds banal, but is easy to try and just might help- and this may be what he's really doing, trying to divert her behaviour to see if it helps the chronic problem.

There are fads and fashions among doctors, who are part of our shared culture after all. Thirty years ago he might have advised seeing a shrink.

I do know one GP who regularly advises patients in a certain group (mainly female aged 50-70) to visit an aromatherapist masseur. His reasoning is that this group of patients appear in his surgery frequently- sometimes weekly- and appear to have absolutely nothing clinically wrong with them so far as he can see. They tend to be single, childless, or mothers whose kids are grown, and a shade more health obsessed than is good for them (his words, not mine). There is absolutely nothing he can do for them clinically, but he has found they mostly report feeling better for the aromatherapy thing , and he sees a lot less of them. So from his point of view he actually is helping them.

Maybe this doc just happens to know a naturopath. I'd be concerned only if I found he was recommending a specific practice which turned out to be his wife or someone.

On balance though, I think I'd try the long walks or yoga first- either should help any cause that a naturopath could help and they would be cheaper and probably safer, though I suppose there's hazard even in a walk, particularly for a woman alone. Nothing is totally risk free.

Eeeek! A herb!

;)
 
Okay. Not immediately apparant. I'm pretty sure Fiona is not into that sort of herb (although other children have been).
 
Lionking I know one shouldn't give medical advice, but what the hell- My significant other suffers headaches constantly- both "ordinary" ones and migraine. She has pills for the migraine, which help if taken in time, but for the general chronic headaches she has found avoiding all alcohol and drinking plenty water has been the most consistently helpful course. Not rocket science, but worth a try.
And like you, I hope the cause of this is environmental / behavioural and nothing else.
 
Good post Soapy Sam.

Firstly, it was her GP who recommended a Naturopath, and given that Fiona (shorter than saying "my daughter") was desparate for some relief she may very well have said "are you sure there is nothing you can do?"

I hope it is stress related. She's only been a teacher for three years and is in a tough, multi-cultural, low income school. She and her partner have also just moved into a new house. Any other causes of these headaches are things we just don't want to think about.

I hope you are right and the doctor knew that he was just hoping for a placebo-like reaction. I fear that many doctors recently educated give too much credence to "complementary medicine".

Just a thought, but moving into a new house might cause the problem if there is something in the home environment that she is susceptible to.

glenn
 

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