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Evidence for why we know the New Testament writers told the truth.

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Hokulele said:
I don't think the others are sent to hell, but they certainly aren't going to enjoy the few months after Jesus' return.

Revelation 7 describes who are "sealed" (and there are only 144,000 of them, all male, all Jews, ETA: and all virgins). Revelation 9:4-5 describes what happens to other men.

I guess women are given a free pass. :shrug:
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You know, I never realized Revelation was written by Lovecraft.
 
Moss said:
The whole census stuff with Luke? We disproved that. And if the NT gets cloudy and messy with such simple but important stuff, why should we believe anything at all that is written inside it?
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There is that word prove (or disprove) again. All you did was present evidence (not prove) that Luke could be wrong. Whereas I presented evidence (from Sir William M. Ramsay)that he could have been right. Even Pax came in and quoted a book of Ramsay's that said another census occurred {or was called for} in 8 B.C. . Josephus never mentioned this census.

And I've already mentioned that some in here have implied that Josephus was wrong about Moses being in Egypt -- so if you believe he was wrong there, why not wrong again. And we know Josephus was close to the Roman Emperor who didn't exactly like Christians and surely wouldn't have mind if Josephus accidently (on purpose) got it wrong.

And then there was the whole thing about Quirinius could have been a ruler twice because of an inscription found by Ramsay.

And there is another explanation that deals with another Greek translation of the verse that is explained on this site.

http://www.conservapedia.com/Luke_and_the_Census

So I've listed 4 reasons why Luke could have been right. So nothing has been "proved" regarding the census. And when you have 4 reasons why Luke could have been right you have to give the man who has been called a great historian {Luke} the benefit of any doubt.

This is all the reason why people need to do their own research and not always believe someone in here who says we've proved this or we proved that with no explanation -- because I might not be able to get to every post due to time or might have missed a post.
 
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DOC said:
So I've listed 4 reasons why Luke could have been right. So nothing has been "proved" regarding the census. And when you have 4 reasons why Luke could have been right you have to give the man who has been called a great historian {Luke} the benefit of any doubt.
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The man who called Luke a great historian said there is no evidence for any of the supernatural events in the bible. Can we trust him and end this thread?
 
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Hokulele said:
What a fatuously callous thing to say.

Disgusting.
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So you would rather have someone be put out on the road with no job or shelter and risk starvation and freezing to death at night then to be sore for a few days but still have food and shelter.
 
DOC said:
So you would rather have someone be put out on the road with no job or shelter and risk starvation and freezing to death at night then to be sore for a few days but still have food and shelter.
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I would rather that they weren't taken from their homes where they had food and shelter in the first place.

Are you suggesting that we should round up the homeless, enslave them and beat them regularly to keep order?
 
Lothian said:
The man who called Luke a great historian said there is no evidence for any of the supernatural events in the bible. Can we trust him and end this thread?
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Where exactly did he say there is no evidence of any supernatural events. Which post did you show this. And for the record, Ramsay did become a Christian.

And even if he did say this there is historical evidence for the resurrection.

http://www.leaderu.com/everystudent/easter/articles/josh2.html

Also, I find it interesting that you and Elizabeth are in such a hurry to end this thread when there is new information related to the topic continuing to come out. Why don't you just let the thread run its course and continue to receive new information. Or if you're tired of thread just block it.
 
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RoboTimbo said:
DOC, why weren't they simply paid wages? They did have employment back then, didn't they?
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Room and Board is a form of wage, I doubt they had banks where you could cash your payroll check...

ETA

I once heard a black person say during a past recession, "slavery was bad but at least it was a job".
 
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DOC said:
So you would rather have someone be put out on the road with no job or shelter and risk starvation and freezing to death at night then to be sore for a few days but still have food and shelter.
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False dichotomy. But please, continue to justify beating slaves. It really is quite informative.

I think if anyone wanted to know what harm christianity can cause, you just provided ample evidence.
 
DOC said:
Room and Board is a form of wage, I doubt they had banks where you could cash your payroll check.

I once heard a black person say during a past recession, "slavery was bad but at least it was a job".
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That is an incredibly bogoted thing to believe in, let alone say to another human being. Slavery is not a "job", nor is room and board a form of wage. Maybe you could look up the word slavery in a dictionary and post the part where it says the things you've just asserted?

Is there some reason that you are defending slavery as being moral? Do you really believe that slavery is moral?
 
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DOC said:
Where exactly did he say there is no evidence of any supernatural events.
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The Bearing of Recent Discovery on the Trustworthiness of the New Testament (1915) page 235
"The truth of the historical surroundings in which Luke's narrative places the birth of Jesus does not prove the supreme facts, which give human and divine value to the birth are true."

and

page 89
"You may press the words of Luke in a degree beyond any other historian’s, and they stand the keenest scrutiny and the hardest treatment, provided always that the critic knows the subject and does not go beyond the limits of science and of justice"

and

Page 254
"We know that Luke was right in the external facts, because the records have disclosed the whole system of the census ; but as to the inner facts, the birth and the divine nature of Jesus, there can (as said above) be no historical reasoning, for those are a matter of faith, of intuition, and of the individual human being's experience and inner life."


and page 236
The surrounding facts are matter of history, and can be discussed and proved by historical evidence. The essential facts of the narrative are not susceptible of discussion on historical principles, and do not condescend to be tested by historical evidence

Which post did you show this.
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5464;5469;5472;5535;5559;5585;

And for the record, Ramsay did become a Christian.
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I never disputed he was a Christian. You can be a Christian without evidence, as you would know if you had read his work.

And even if he did say this there is historical evidence for the resurrection

http://www.leaderu.com/everystudent/easter/articles/josh2.html
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That is not evidence it simply retells the bible story.

Also, I find it interesting that you and Elizabeth are in such a hurry to end this thread when there is new information related to the topic continuing to come out. Why don't you just let the thread run its course and continue to receive new information. Or if your tired of thread just block it.
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We have not only run the course we are on the third lap. You have not provided any evidence that the New Testament writers told the truth in the essential elements of the bible story.
 
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Well, I think Doc has just disgusted my way out of this thread.

I honestly can't even begin to put into words my utter contempt and disgust for people like him - regardless of whether he truly believes slavery is better than the alternative (hardly)...he's still willing to claim that it is just to somehow attempt to justify his beliefs.

I know this is blatantly breaking the rules, but I feel that at no time is this more appropriately deserved than this:

Doc, go :rule10 yourself.
 
Lothian said:
The Bearing of Recent Discovery on the Trustworthiness of the New Testament (1915) page 235
"The truth of the historical surroundings in which Luke's narrative places the birth of Jesus does not prove the supreme facts, which give human and divine value to the birth are true."

and

page 89
"You may press the words of Luke in a degree beyond any other historian’s, and they stand the keenest scrutiny and the hardest treatment, provided always that the critic knows the subject and does not go beyond the limits of science and of justice"

and

Page 254
"We know that Luke was right in the external facts, because the records have disclosed the whole system of the census ; but as to the inner facts, the birth and the divine nature of Jesus, there can (as said above) be no historical reasoning, for those are a matter of faith, of intuition, and of the individual human being's experience and inner life."


and page 236
The surrounding facts are matter of history, and can be discussed and proved by historical evidence. The essential facts of the narrative are not susceptible of discussion on historical principles, and do not condescend to be tested by historical evidence

5464;5469;5472;5535;5559;5585;

I never disputed he was a Christian. You can be a Christian without evidence, as you would know if you had read his work.

That is not evidence it simply retells the bible story.

We have not only run the course we are on the third lap. You have not provided any evidence that the New Testament writers told the truth in the essential elements of the bible story.
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A post made of win.
 
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