Merged Continuation - 9/11 CT subforum General Discussion Thread

[JohnG]

Unless I'm mistaken, the passenger DNA is not part of Flight 77. I don't think I can break it down any further than that without being crass.

The evidence for Flight 77's presence has to be strong. For example, I don't think the CNN security footage did much to quell doubt. Nor did I find the NatGeo special replaying photos of the same piece over and over again very convincing.

That sure is one complicated (some might say ridiculously so) scheme you crassly hint at.

Wouldn't it have been simpler for the conspirators to have flown planes into buildings?

 

[Dave Rogers]

Unless I'm mistaken, the passenger DNA is not part of Flight 77.

You are mistaken, actually. Flight 77, by any rational definition, includes the passengers on board, otherwise the next flight by the same plane would also be Flight 77.

Dave

 

[RedIbis]

You are mistaken, actually. Flight 77, by any rational definition, includes the passengers on board, otherwise the next flight by the same plane would also be Flight 77.

Dave

Would the next flight by the same plane also contain the same DNA since according to you it's part of the plane?

 

[RedIbis]

Unless you are positing that the DNA evidence was "faked" somehow and unless you can provide evidence in support of such a claim, the evidence of the existence and location of the DNA of all but one of the passengers of Flight 77 at the Pentagon does indeed definitively prove that it was Flight 77 that crashed into the building.

So step up or step off, RedIbis.

It's amazing the lengths you have to go to maitain your bias. I'll repeat what I said earlier in the thread:

Overlooking for a moment the stundiocity of that statement, the only point, and I mean the only point (which is to say the only point) I'm trying to make is that reports of passenger DNA do not definitively prove the presence of Flight 77, since within the laws of the physical world, there would be other ways such DNA could have been reported without that flight having been at the Pentagon. This is the only point I'm trying to make, and I won't elaborate, as I've done that many times before in other threads.

 

[Dave Rogers]

Would the next flight by the same plane also contain the same DNA since according to you it's part of the plane?

You seem to have replied to a post saying the exact opposite of what mine said. Which thread was it in?

Dave

 

[twinstead]

Red, now you're just playing cute rhetorical games and trying to be clever. The fact remains that you have NO rational reason to doubt that flight 77 hit the Pentagon, or that DNA from the passengers of that flight was recovered from the Pentagon.

 

[BigAl]

Red, now you're just playing cute rhetorical games and trying to be clever. The fact remains that you have NO rational reason to doubt that flight 77 hit the Pentagon, or that DNA from the passengers of that flight was recovered from the Pentagon.

Red and his ilk will tease at one little aspect of 9/11 as if it stands in isolation and isn't part of a immense interlocking set of evidence and eyewitness reports and forensic analysis.

We have DNA evidence for all the occupants of Flight 77 and 93 and at least fragmentary DNA evidence Flights 11 and 175. We have personal effects from the occupants of all 4 planes.

And the technical evidence for all four flights goes way beyond that.

 

[MikeW]

Curious:

MOSCOW WARNS OF TALIBAN THREAT. A spokesman for the Russian
Foreign Ministry sharply criticized Afghanistan's Taliban on 20 August [2001],
saying that the Taliban has made international terrorist leader Osama
bin Laden its defense minister. The spokesman warned that this move
represents a threat to the countries of Central Asia, Russian agencies
reported.
http://russian-news.com/archive/082001/msg00045.html

Anyone heard that before?

 

[Pardalis]

We have DNA evidence for all the occupants of Flight 77 and 93 and at least fragmentary DNA evidence Flights 11 and 175. We have personal effects from the occupants of all 4 planes.

As far as I know, Red doesn't doubt that flights 11 and 175 hit the towers, but somehow flights 77 and 93 he denies. Talk about double standards.

 

[Pardalis]

that reports of passenger DNA do not definitively prove the presence of Flight 77

Then what would prove it, to your satisfaction?

 

[Toke]

As for flights, I recall the late U1 having made a official request for information on the shooting down of flight 93.

If it had, in an alternate universe, been shot down, what difference would that have made. (and I am not talking about nightmares of the fighterpilots etc.)

ETA: Sorry, even as a non american this post make me feel sick. I am starting to understand some of the agitation of the debunkers here.

 

[Whiplash]

I have decided to become a truther. Why? It's simple. It's possible that on 9-11, aliens came to the earth and did the whole thing.

It's possible, so that is more than good enough for me. What, there is evidence of other things? Nah, stick it. My conclusion is every bit as valid, with or without evidence. After all, it is possible. And that is good enough.

It's up to you guys to prove to me that aliens were not invovled. Or ghosts. Or super intelligent dinosaurs that have survived undergorund for millions of years. This is all technically possible, and until you can prove that it's not possible, they are just as valid of a conclusion as any other.

 

[Toke]

I have decided to become a truther. Why? It's simple. It's possible that on 9-11, aliens came to the earth and did the whole thing.

It's possible, so that is more than good enough for me. What, there is evidence of other things? Nah, stick it. My conclusion is every bit as valid, with or without evidence. After all, it is possible. And that is good enough.

It's up to you guys to prove to me that aliens were not invovled. Or ghosts. Or super intelligent dinosaurs that have survived undergorund for millions of years. This is all technically possible, and until you can prove that it's not possible, they are just as valid of a conclusion as any other.

Could I tempt you with some nordic ID myth?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ymir
You sound ready for it.

 

[RedIbis]

As far as I know, Red doesn't doubt that flights 11 and 175 hit the towers, but somehow flights 77 and 93 he denies. Talk about double standards.

You're correct that I don't doubt 11 and 175 hit the towers because there's video of it and the damage to the bldgs is consistent with plane impact. The damage to the Pentagon and in Shanksville is not consistent with plane impact, there are no videos made available of these events, and there is little if any plane debris that has been conclusively identified as belonging to those flights, among other discrepencies.

 

[BigAl]

You're correct that I don't doubt 11 and 175 hit the towers because there's video of it and the damage to the bldgs is consistent with plane impact. The damage to the Pentagon and in Shanksville is not consistent with plane impact, there are no videos made available of these events, and there is little if any plane debris that has been conclusively identified as belonging to those flights, among other discrepencies.

Nearly 100% or the debris for Flight 93 and Flight 77 have been recovered.

 

[DGM]

You're correct that I don't doubt 11 and 175 hit the towers because there's video of it and the damage to the bldgs is consistent with plane impact. The damage to the Pentagon and in Shanksville is not consistent with plane impact, there are no videos made available of these events, and there is little if any plane debris that has been conclusively identified as belonging to those flights, among other discrepencies.

You should add; Available to the average "Joe" on the street investigating without spending much time out of the house.

 

[Grizzly Bear]

I don't think spontaneously generated standards of evidence or an inability to understand what happens to a plane crashing at high velocity is much of a starting point for contesting it.

 

[dtugg]

You're correct that I don't doubt 11 and 175 hit the towers because there's video of it and the damage to the bldgs is consistent with plane impact. The damage to the Pentagon and in Shanksville is not consistent with plane impact, there are no videos made available of these events, and there is little if any plane debris that has been conclusively identified as belonging to those flights, among other discrepencies.

According to who? You, a proven liar with no relevant expertise? And I take it that those people who witnessed 77 and 93 crash are liars and shills, correct?

 

[Matthew Cline]

You're correct that I don't doubt 11 and 175 hit the towers because there's video of it and the damage to the bldgs is consistent with plane impact.

Do the videos conclusively prove that it was flights 11 and 175? If not, couldn't the planes that crashed into the towers be planes other than 11 and 175? Or do you have no doubt since the conspirators had control of 11 and 175, so they had no reason to crash other planes into the towers?

There's a ton of major airliner crashes which aren't filmed at all. All of those flights have been dentified through a combination of wreckage and passenger remains.

Are there any Truthers who say "Well, for those un-filmed crashes we can't really know which plane crashed, so the crash investigators should admit that they don't know for those cases"? That would be fun.

 

[TruthersLie]

You're correct that I don't doubt 11 and 175 hit the towers because there's video of it and the damage to the bldgs is consistent with plane impact. The damage to the Pentagon and in Shanksville is not consistent with plane impact, there are no videos made available of these events, and there is little if any plane debris that has been conclusively identified as belonging to those flights, among other discrepencies.

Ummmm red.

Do you know what happens when a jet moving over 500 mph hits a reinforced concrete structure?

I'm sure you have seen this repeatedly



or there is this


or Flight 1771 pt 1


flight 1771 pt 2


And we get into the MTVgeneration "where is the video?" BS. Really red? it is called totality of the evidence.
1. 2 aircraft are reported hijacked
2. those aircraft are tracked on radar
3. we have the voices of the hijackers on the ATC tapes
4. Those jets never arrived at ANY known destination
5. Physical witnesses saw jets matching the descriptions of the jets in question strike the pentagon and crash
6. DNA evidence of the passengers of flt 77 and flt 93 were recovered on the scene.
7. Both aircraft were followed into impact by an HC130 (the same one saw both crashes (IIRC, the HC130 followed flt 77 into the pentagon and was then retasked to watch flt 93... I know they were onscene right after the crash)
8. debris of both jets including engine parts were recovered from the locations.

that is overwhelming evidence.

oh wait... I forget, the DNA evidence could be faked, there is no evidence of jet fuel contamination of flt 93 in shanksville... and other bs. Ignore the mountain of physical evidence...