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Split Thread WTC7 is a problem for the 9/11 official story

bill smith said:
No....they needed a huge media spectacular to 'shock and awe' the American public into a kind of catatonic state that they could continually reinforce with wall-to-wall media broadcasting of the fireballs and so on.
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That does not answer the question as to why not just actually fly aircraft into the buildings and let that be the 'shock and awe ' attack.

Having 3 domestic American aircraft hijacked and flown into targets representing American power and wealth IS DEFINATELY a 'shock and awe' attack. It immediately kills the people on board and does billions of dollars in damage even if the structures do not collapse.

Want proof? How many national and local TV stations were NOT at the site, or showing a feed from someone who was, by the time the second plane hit?
I ask it that way because that is a smaller number than those who were there or taking a feed from one that was.
Some cable specialty channels were interrupting their programming to take live feeds from stations that were there, IIRC WTBS was one.
Internationally both the BBC and the Canadian CBC were live from Manhattan when the second plane hit.
Do you still contend that without buildings collapsing and only hundreds dead rather than thousands, this would not be 'shock and awe'?

Your contention that WTC 7 was included in this vast complicated plan does not fit with the details of the attacks that succeded. The towers are world renowned and known as is the Pentagon. WTC 7 is no more well known that hundreds of high rises on the eastern seaboard.
Hitting a casino in Atlantic City would have been more in line with the selection of targets than WTC 7.

Your contention that WTC 7 was supposed to be hit by an aircraft and use that as the cause of its demise fails on another point as well given that if that were the case then the 'perps' could just as easily called that demolition off.

Firthermore exactly what does a departure delay have to do with not having the hijackers actually continue towards NYC?
Even if they get shot down its still a 'win' for the bad guys. Another few dozen Americans die in the plane a likely several more on the ground.

combined with GW talking himself hoarse on TV about 'Osama bin Laden' and terror,terror terror. Any fool can see the sychological manipulation at work.

The intention was to turn the collective American mind into a putty like state in which you would allow them to do anything at all that they wanted including voting your own shackles into existence. I can tell you....they were 100% sucessful in this regard.
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Few would dispute that the administration took full and cynical advantage of the attacks to push through measures they had wated to put in place such as a new military push in the middle east.

However, if the diabolical plan was to garner, specifically, war in Afghanistan and Iraq, then that plan would naturally have included among the supposed hijackers, a few Afghanis and Iraqis. There were none, not a one, nada, zip, zilch.
Instead they were predominantly from Saudi Arabia, a basically friendly country to the USA(others, IIRRC were Jordanian and Syrian). In a diabolical plan to garner war in the ME that is the single stupidest thing one could do. Would have made getting into Iraq a lot easier and perhaps persuaded a few more allies to join the fray had the hijackers been Iraqi, no? Perhaps they could have all been Syrian. Syria is not exactly on best terms with the USA and would certainly have pleased the Israelis had the USA invaded Syria. Ditto for Lebanon. Hell, with Lebanon you get two for the price of one if the Syrians object.
Jordan has no oil, there is really no utility in any hijacker being said to be Jordanian.
What about Libya? There's oil there, no hijackers from Libya though.
How about Iran? Yes, Iran, the home of the regeime that gave the USA a black eye a couple of decades ago, held Americans hostage for 400 days. No hijackers from Iran though.
Bahrain, lots of oil and its tiny to boot, perfect for invasion. No hijackers from Bahrain. Qatar, same. U.A.E, same.
Yemen, well who wants Yemen anyway?

,,, but nope, the home countries of the hijackers were said instead to be from nominal allies(discounting Syria) of the USA. WOW, that makes absolutly no sense whatsoever, on any planet I can think of. What planet do you spend most of your time on, bill?
Hey, what about Somalia,, oooh there's bones to pick there that the American Public would have jumped on.
 
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What? How? Why would....? Words fail me. Never mind all that pesky evidence, this post makes no conceivable sense whatsoever.

bill smith said:
If flight 93 had hit it's intended target- WTC7 then we would have had three planes and three buidings. No mess in Shanksville and no problem with WTC7. All nice and neat and simple.
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Flight 93 hitting WTC7 would have actually been suspicious because it has no symbolic value and in no way fits with the rest of the targets. It was no major landmark and would have been so difficult to hit as to make the 'untrained pilots' story laughable. Stupid idea.

The Pentagon was turned into a honeypot/trap. The reason here was to develop the template of the typical 9/11 conspiracy theorist' They needed this urgently and as quickly as possible. They needed to have a label to hang on any credible person who might dispute the oficial story along the lines of '' he's only one of those silly conspiracy theorists'. This template was more important than you can imagine. We Truthers have been living with it daily for eight years.
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What?!? This is incoherent even by your standards. What template? What label? Are these just random sentences strung together?

I also suspect that they may have actual footage of a plane crashing into the Pentagon- whether real or fake I don't know. I think the idea was to show it at some strategic point and take the wind out of the whole conspiracy theory.
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This 'suspicion' of yours is completely baseless and has zero facts to back it up but I actually understood what you were trying to say... until I thought about what you mean by 'actual footage' that can be either real or fake. Or did you mean a real or fake plane? No, this is the same nonsense as all the rest.

After WTC7 and the Shanksville fiasco they ditched that idea as those conspiracies already had a solid life of their own.
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Grmrhmbmlm?!? What 'Shanksville fiasco'? Either they crashed the plane there or they faked it (which would take a lot of time to set up). So no again. There isn't a single shred of logic to be found anywhere in your post. I'm almost back to thinking you're just pulling our leg.
 
jaydeehess said:
That does not answer the question as to why not just actually fly aircraft into the buildings and let that be the 'shock and awe ' attack.

Having 3 domestic American aircraft hijacked and flown into targets representing American power and wealth IS DEFINATELY a 'shock and awe' attack. It immediately kills the people on board and does billions of dollars in damage even if the structures do not collapse.

Want proof? How many national and local TV stations were NOT at the site, or showing a feed from someone who was, by the time the second plane hit?
I ask it that way because that is a smaller number than those who were there or taking a feed from one that was.
Some cable specialty channels were interrupting their programming to take live feeds from stations that were there, IIRC WTBS was one.
Internationally both the BBC and the Canadian CBC were live from Manhattan when the second plane hit.
Do you still contend that without buildings collapsing and only hundreds dead rather than thousands, this would not be 'shock and awe'?

Your contention that WTC 7 was included in this vast complicated plan does not fit with the details of the attacks that succeded. The towers are world renowned and known as is the Pentagon. WTC 7 is no more well known that hundreds of high rises on the eastern seaboard.
Hitting a casino in Atlantic City would have been more in line with the selection of targets than WTC 7.

Your contention that WTC 7 was supposed to be hit by an aircraft and use that as the cause of its demise fails on another point as well given that if that were the case then the 'perps' could just as easily called that demolition off.

Firthermore exactly what does a departure delay have to do with not having the hijackers actually continue towards NYC?
Even if they get shot down its still a 'win' for the bad guys. Another few dozen Americans die in the plane a likely several more on the ground.



Few would dispute that the administration took full and cynical advantage of the attacks to push through measures they had wated to put in place such as a new military push in the middle east.

However, if the diabolical plan was to garner, specifically, war in Afghanistan and Iraq, then that plan would naturally have included among the supposed hijackers, a few Afghanis and Iraqis. There were none, not a one, nada, zip, zilch.
Instead they were predominantly from Saudi Arabia, a basically friendly country to the USA(others, IIRRC were Jordanian and Syrian). In a diabolical plan to garner war in the ME that is the single stupidest thing one could do. Would have made getting into Iraq a lot easier and perhaps persuaded a few more allies to join the fray had the hijackers been Iraqi, no? Perhaps they could have all been Syrian. Syria is not exactly on best terms with the USA and would certainly have pleased the Israelis had the USA invaded Syria. Ditto for Lebanon. Hell, with Lebanon you get two for the price of one if the Syrians object.
Jordan has no oil, there is really no utility in any hijacker being said to be Jordanian.
What about Libya? There's oil there, no hijackers from Libya though.
How about Iran? Yes, Iran, the home of the regeime that gave the USA a black eye a couple of decades ago, held Americans hostage for 400 days. No hijackers from Iran though.
Bahrain, lots of oil and its tiny to boot, perfect for invasion. No hijackers from Bahrain. Qatar, same. U.A.E, same.
Yemen, well who wants Yemen anyway?

,,, but nope, the home countries of the hijackers were said instead to be from nominal allies(discounting Syria) of the USA. WOW, that makes absolutly no sense whatsoever, on any planet I can think of. What planet do you spend most of your time on, bill?
Hey, what about Somalia,, oooh there's bones to pick there that the American Public would have jumped on.
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I imagine hat using Saudis was just another deliberate pointer to conspiracy heories. There are so many of these it would rock you back on your heels . I had a little look at that a while ago and may write it up sometime soon.
 
tuc0 said:
The Pentagon was turned into a honeypot/trap. The reason here was to develop the template of the typical 9/11 conspiracy theorist' They needed this urgently .............
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What?!? This is incoherent even by your standards. What template? What label? Are these just random sentences strung together?

.
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Good, its not just me then............
 
jaydeehess said:
{premonition moment}

bill will address one minor point of my above post if he addresses it at all.
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bill smith said:
I imagine hat using Saudis was just another deliberate pointer to conspiracy heories. There are so many of these it would rock you back on your heels . I had a little look at that a while ago and may write it up sometime soon.
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Wow, that was faster than I thought it would be.
 
The whole WTC7 thing is stupid, which is why truthers are the only ones who care. Everyone who lived / worked in the vicinity just called it the Salomon Brothers Building.
 
bill smith said:
I imagine hat using Saudis was just another deliberate pointer to conspiracy heories. There are so many of these it would rock you back on your heels . I had a little look at that a while ago and may write it up sometime soon.
Click to expand...

The only thing that rocks me back on my heels is your ability to magically morph your little theory to account for just about any inconsistencies or logic flaws that are found, right on the fly. You should be a novelist. Not an investigator of course because you're a laughing stock when it comes to that, but a decent novelist.
 
carlitos said:
The whole WTC7 thing is stupid, which is why truthers are the only ones who care. Everyone who lived / worked in the vicinity just called it the Salomon Brothers Building.
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,,and one of the points that bill completely misses is that only those who "lived / worked in the vicinity" would have had any concern about the very existance of the structure, as opposed to the WTC towers or the Pentagon.

As for flt 93 it seems quite obvious to me that the Capitol bldg would be the most likely target with the Whitehouse a close second only because its much smaller and harder to distinquish from the air.
 
I forget bill, do you or do you not believe that Flight 93 crashed in Shankesville?

ETA: dinner time all. I look forward to more fiction from bill later.
 
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twinstead said:
The only thing that rocks me back on my heels is your ability to magically morph your little theory to account for just about any inconsistencies or logic flaws that are found, right on the fly. You should be a novelist. Not an investigator of course because you're a laughing stock when it comes to that, but a decent novelist.
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I'm thinking Maxphoton's sister. Or at least they know each other.;)
 
jaydeehess said:
,,and one of the points that bill completely misses is that only those who "lived / worked in the vicinity" would have had any concern about the very existance of the structure, as opposed to the WTC towers or the Pentagon.

As for flt 93 it seems quite obvious to me that the Capitol bldg would be the most likely target with the Whitehouse a close second only because its much smaller and harder to distinquish from the air.
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No the stage was New York on 9/11. They had the cameras all set up and running for the arrival of flight 93. That was to be the epic fireball when it dived into the roof of WTC7 with the whole Nation watching live.. A real BIGGIE.

I ometimes think that there was something in the east Penthouse that would have helped to make the fireball even bigger. Imagine that total impact on the American psyche as the cameras panned back and forth ? These guys did not believe that 'less is more '. When 93 didn't arrive they caused the Penthouse to fall into the building first with the rest of the building falling on top of it. Otherwise the Penthpouse would have been on top of the rubble and whatever was inside might have been seen.
 
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Yup, yup. That sure would have been something, alright.

Can you tell me again why they didn't just fly planes into buildings?
 
bill smith said:
When 93 didn't arrive they caused the Penthouse to fall into the bilding first eith the rest of the building falling on top of it. Otherwise the Penthpouse would have been on top of the rubble and whatever was inside might have been seen.
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8 hours later.... when they had all the time in the world to do the same all the while taking advantage of the enormous fires burning inside of it when they were at their peak. Damn these NWO demo teams are more retarded than jawbreakers bricks.
 
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bill smith said:
No the stage was New York on 9/11. They had all the cameras all set up and running for the arrival of flight 93. hat was to be the epic fireball when it dived into the roof of WTC7 with the whole Nation watching live.. A real BIGGIE.

I ometimes think that there was something in the east Penthouse that wold have helped to make the fireball even bigger. Imagine that total impact on the American psyche as the cameras panned back and forth ? These guys did not believe that 'less is more ''. When 93 didn't arrive they caused the Penthouse to fall into the building first with the rest of the building falling on top of it. Otherwise the Penthpouse would have been on top of the rubble and whatever was inside might have been seen.
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But what about the thousands of people involved in the clean-up. Were "they" not afraid they would see "it"? Or are they all "in on it"?
 
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