I need serious help with this guy

[Edx]

Its a shame Gravy's vids are in such crappy quality. Would be nice to have a HD version, or any better quality version!

 

[sylvan8798]

Correction

and so on till terminal velocity is reached
assuming a vacuum and thing didnt fall in a vacume
terminal velocity depends on a number of factors but
basically its determined by the formula D-mg=0

D= drag
m= mass
g= g=9.81m/s^2

and D is a function of speed and varies for any given shape and mass
in a lot of cases this would be determined experimentally

point being at some point things would stop accelerating and a "terminal' velocity is reached
for the sake of arguement lets go with say 230 ft/sec which is the terminal velocity of the basic rock

Correction: I missed what he was trying to get at in this drunken rant, here. Correct that terminal velocity means that acceleration is 0, and velocity becomes constant, but if you propose to take the forces applied up by the intact structure as "drag", we have no information regarding what the drag coefficients would be in this case, and using a rock in air hardly seems reasonable for ballparking it. Also, he inserts a drag term and then computes the velocity WITHOUT it for the first 7 seconds, as if it suddenly appears to bring the acceleration to a halt in the 7th second, but was not there before that.

 

[Kermassa]

This guy is shifting a lot between different unit-system, it doesn't seem natural to me.

 

[The Almond]

Sunray, if your friend really did take a construction management class, then he would know how long it takes to set up a controlled demolition. I recall studying a CD of a building approximately 1/4th the height and nowhere near the size of the WTC towers. Operating on a completely stripped down building, where all of the drywall, electrical wiring, furniture and people had been removed, it took more than a month for a team of experts to actually wire the building for demolition. This was done on top of 3 months worth of planning and calculations in addition to the stripping and preparation of the site.

The fact still remains that controlled demolition is expensive, man-power intensive, complicated and requires a building completely empty and removed of all of its habitable portions. How on earth could anyone have done that to two of the tallest occupied structures in New York?

 

[Sunray Breaker]

Man he got angry...

I sent him your responses and he was pretty mad about the fact that I didn't give him time to correct it.

But I don't think it would have been that much better as he supported the very flawed twoofer version in the first place.

We're gonna meet up for a drink tonight and try to bury the hatchet.

He said he felt betrayed...DAMN!!!

Anybody have any last little words to share with him about this whole thing? Any final arguments to present...I already said my piece to him, but I want to him to be left with a good taste in his mouth about JREF as i'm trying to encourage him to come hear and discuss some more things...

 

[sylvan8798]

Man he got angry...

I sent him your responses and he was pretty mad about the fact that I didn't give him time to correct it.

But I don't think it would have been that much better as he supported the very flawed twoofer version in the first place.

We're gonna meet up for a drink tonight and try to bury the hatchet.

He said he felt betrayed...DAMN!!!

Anybody have any last little words to share with him about this whole thing? Any final arguments to present...I already said my piece to him, but I want to him to be left with a good taste in his mouth about JREF as i'm trying to encourage him to come hear and discuss some more things...

Having tied one on myself on more than one, ahem, occasion, I say maybe we'll chalk it up to demon rum. He should at least read some of the stuff engineers and physics types have put on these forums - particularly Mackey, etc. And if he doesn't agree with how something was done, he should only post responses when he is (more or less) sober

 

[Sunray Breaker]

He is currently re-working his calculations and I've promised not to present any more of them until he claims to have made a final analysis...Until then...What he's saying below I would debunk if I knew more about it...It's in regards to WTC blueprints:

its equally as to true to point out that a complete set of blue prints including all technical details is unavailable for the twin towers
why
what is there to hide or protect
the towers are gone
no present threat exists to them other than the threat imposed by what may have happened to them
if a detailed analysis of where each piece of steel landed, where it started out, and what level of damage did it sustain has been conducted
where is it
why is it not available to public scrutiny or why was a detailed analysis not conducted
the exact same kind of analysis that goes into every airplane accident
except this one

seems obvious
if someone is hiding something
its most likely because they "have" something to hide

 

[Sam.I.Am]

The blueprints are available. Tell him to google WTC blueprints. Then tell him he is either very stupid or very lazy.

 

[Kermassa]

if a detailed analysis of where each piece of steel landed, where it started out, and what level of damage did it sustain has been conducted

Does he understand how long time it would take to examine every piece of the towers?
The rescue work would have taken a lot longer if the rescue workers weren't allowed to remove pieces without registration.

the exact same kind of analysis that goes into every airplane accident
except this one

Well, mostly the analyses regard the How and the Why (mechanical problem, human error ect), to learn from the accidents and try to prevent it from happening again. In this case we know why and how.

 

[Longfellow]

Man he got angry..(snip)

Anybody have any last little words to share with him about this whole thing? Any final arguments to present...I already said my piece to him, but I want to him to be left with a good taste in his mouth about JREF as i'm trying to encourage him to come hear and discuss some more things...

You might try to politely emphasize the fact that your position in this. . .exchange. . .was, and always will be, grounded in reality.

 

[Newtons Bit]

The blueprints are available. Tell him to google WTC blueprints. Then tell him he is either very stupid or very lazy.

Portions of the architectural construction documents were leaked. There isn't anything that I'm aware of structurally on the net. And no one in industry calls them blueprints. Blueprints refer to an old style of reproducing plan sets that was not used in the 70's. That technique was the aptly named blue-lines. The word blueprint has carried over in the lay population to describe things they don't understand.

This guy is not an engineer. He would know better, even if drunk.

 

[Sunray Breaker]

You might try to politely emphasize the fact that your position in this. . .exchange. . .was, and always will be, grounded in reality.

Was? unfortunately no...(I'm a recovering twoofer)

Is now? Defintely yes!!! (you guys are much better at backing up your side of the story than these bozos, and that's ultimately what pulled me ou of the yuck...

Thanks to all of you for doing that by the way. We'll keep this thread crackin'. I suspect I'll have a LOT more from this guy come monday for you guys to sink your teeth into. He's currently doing his own personal analysis.

 

[Horatius]

Thanks to all of you for doing that by the way. We'll keep this thread crackin'. I suspect I'll have a LOT more from this guy come monday for you guys to sink your teeth into. He's currently doing his own personal analysis.

While he's doing that, perhaps you should ask him to reflect on the mindset that allowed him to dismiss us as unlearned, unscientific yobbos, whilst making a simply astounding number of basic errors himself.

One characterizing feature I've noticed for truthers is a complete lack of self-awareness. Perhaps if he can see himself as we see him, he will realize how ridiculous he looks.

 

[TruthersLie]

Man he got angry...

I sent him your responses and he was pretty mad about the fact that I didn't give him time to correct it.

<snip>

I LOVE this part.

He sends you CRAP and tries to pass it off as correct information. You posted it here, and he got COMPLETELY NAILED on is BS information, and he gets mad that you "didn't give him time to correct it."

ROFLMAO.

He got mad because he had his nose rubbed in his own BS and was PUBLICLY OWNED.

I also love the fact that now he is doing the normal twoof... shift shift shift...

he is NOT a structural or civil engineer, and there is NO way he worked as an engineer on any part of the towers.

 

[sylvan8798]

He is currently re-working his calculations and I've promised not to present any more of them until he claims to have made a final analysis...Until then...What he's saying below I would debunk if I knew more about it...It's in regards to WTC blueprints:

if a detailed analysis of where each piece of steel landed, where it started out, and what level of damage did it sustain has been conducted
where is it
why is it not available to public scrutiny or why was a detailed analysis not conducted
the exact same kind of analysis that goes into every airplane accident
except this one

Does he REALLY think anyone could have done an analysis of when and where each and every piece of steel started and landed and what damage it sustained from watching videos showing the outside of a building wrapped in smoke and debris and falling at an incredible rate? Really? Really?

 

[willhaven]

what in the world are you talking about
were did the buildings fall if not into there own footprint
a few beams landed well outside of the typical fall zone showing the likelihood of explosive detonations

Funny. CTs say that the buildings fell into their own footprint like a professional controlled demolition, yet any columns that fell well outside of the footprint of the WTC towers was obviously proof of explosive detonations.

When people use that kind of logic, you can't win.

And well more than "a few beams" fell out of the footprint. Entire buildings were crushed and had to be demolished because they were hit with debris from the WTC towers.

 

[Klimax]

Funny. CTs say that the buildings fell into their own footprint like a professional controlled demolition, yet any columns that fell well outside of the footprint of the WTC towers was obviously proof of explosive detonations.

When people use that kind of logic, you can't win.

And well more than "a few beams" fell out of the footprint. Entire buildings were crushed and had to be demolished because they were hit with debris from the WTC towers.

Like WTC 7.

 

[willhaven]

Exactly.

 

[leftysergeant]

He seems to assume that natural collapse equals one second per floor. I think that assumption is his biggest mistake.

That sounds like Sophia(Monika Small storm)Shafquat's befief that you would be able to say-clunkety- clunk" for each floor.

We have threads here on two French demolitions without explosive that shoud enable you to defeat the jerk regarding the speed at which floors were dstroyed.

 

[Sunray Breaker]

OK....Some more crap from this dude...HELP!!!

was just working out the wind load on the towers and I realized that your man got the correct concrete mix most likely used on this type of floor system wrong...
way wrong
remember that next time you reference him
if there is one thing I passed with flying colors
it was my exam for license
at least back when they gave exams
basically you had to show you could use the code book effectively
nowadays all you have to be able to do is afford the insurance

guys a pencil pusher
not a builder

and way wrong in his estimates....

I wonder if you realize code demands a floor system capable of 50 lb/ft+ in all commercial structures
over the 36000 sq ft that works out to 1,800,000 lbs for the 91st floor of the north tower
which I have partial prints to work from
I calculated ttl linear feet of wall at 19lb pr/ft for a ttl of 2.4% of the floors carrying capacity
I have not calculated mechanical yet but it is unlikely to comprise a number greater than that same 2.4%
meaning that each of the towers floors was intended to hold about 1.8 million lbs of live loading
and at the 91st floor and above the buildings wind load is 9.8 million lbs
plus hold the weight of the building above which I am still calculating
plus the obligatory safety margin reportedly at 20 time the carrying capacity of the buildings
although Im still checking the veracity of that claim

basically the more I work on this the stronger that building looks and the less likely a collapse could have been naturally initiated simply by fires

which according to the NIST report did not exceed 500 degrees ?
my bet is C but could have been F
do me a favor and go through the NIST report and find the section which covers the examination of the steel subjected to heat
I need those numbers and if you can find em
B

Thanks again to all of you for saving me from the madness that is TWOOF.