Quantum entanglement and the Supernatural

[pocoloco]

Hi,
i am new on this board. I hope you do not mind me trying to solve my problems here. I suffer from OCD in combination with a condition called magical thinking (that means I am afraid I can hurt other people with my thoughts or actions or prayers, that I needed to ask God for forgiveness if I had a bad thought because otherwise he would hurt my friends). I started suffering from this after two friends had died and I thought I had cursed them because we had an argument and I said I never wanted to see them again.
One day... I wanted to be bold... and I prayed for me and my friends and family to end up in hell. I just do not really know why I did. I think I wanted to convince myself, I was not afraid.
A few months ago I wanted to be brave again and I prayed for terrible things to happen to me and my friends... and some terrible things really happened. A friend died, another became very sick, another friends house burned.
Of course I was very scared and I prayed for nearly impossible things to happen and a few of those actually happened.
Now I have done some research and I found this study: "Leonard Leibovici: Effects of remote, retroactive intercessory prayer on outcomes in patients with bloodstream infection: randomised controlled trial" I also learned, that Brian Josephson, nobel prize laureate, thinks quantum entanglment may help explain paranormal phenomena...

How do you think about this? Is there any possibility that it is possible to hurt another person with your thoughts/prayers? May quantum entanglement cause this?

 

[Stray Cat]

Firstly I would ask if you have read ANY of the criticisms of Leonard Leibovici's paper, published in the BMJ December 2001?

They should give you a good indicator that his work is seriously flawed.
http://www.bmj.com/cgi/eletters/323/7327/1450#18241

And secondly in answer to your closing question: no.

 

[kerikiwi]

Hi,

Of course I was very scared and I prayed for nearly impossible things to happen and a few of those actually happened.

I'm not sure that anything can be 'nearly' impossible. It's either possible or not possible.
To what did you pray?
Did you pray generically for 'nearly' impossible things or were you specific?
Can you tell us a few of the 'nearly' impossible things that happened?

 

[not daSkeptic]

How do you think about this? Is there any possibility that it is possible to hurt another person with your thoughts/prayers? May quantum entanglement cause this?

Coincidence is more likely. Any reason to discount this possibility?

 

[tuc0]

May I kindly suggest you stop praying for horrible things to happen? Thank you.

 

[Freethinker]

If that were true, it would be evidence that there is no one in the world praying/wishing for harm to come to Obama, GW Bush, Osama bin Laden or Michael Vick. How many millions of people do you think wish and pray for horrible things to happen to each of them?

 

[Monketi Ghost]

My opinion: pray as hard as you like, your prayers will have no effect. What reliable studies have been done on the effectiveness of prayer bear this conclusion out.

Don't blame yourself.

Scientifically I would be loathe to even bring quantum theory into the discussion without a clear reason to do so. Physicists are also loathe to bring qt into discussions.

 

[chillzero]

Hi,
i am new on this board. I hope you do not mind me trying to solve my problems here.

That depends.
How many other boards do you intend to 'solve' your problems on .... by ignoring responses?

You have already been told that magical thinking does not work, and that you can prove this to yourself quite easily by examining exactly what happens and thereby learning about confirmation bias (I know that term wasn't specifically mentioned, but that was the advice you were getting). You responded by asking that person to curse you, to bring an end to it all.

If you sincerely mean what you write in your OP about your diagnosis, then we (assorted strangers on the internet) can't help you - you need professional help. Go to the doctor who diagnosed you, or another doctor, and seek help.

May quantum entanglement cause this?

Don't make stuff up unless you can provide a clear definition.

 

[fls]

Now I have done some research and I found this study: "Leonard Leibovici: Effects of remote, retroactive intercessory prayer on outcomes in patients with bloodstream infection: randomised controlled trial"

This is very important information!!!

This study was intended as a joke.

The Christmas issue of the BMJ (in which this study was published), is a joke issue. It isn't intended to be taken seriously.

Linda

 

[pocoloco]

I'm not sure that anything can be 'nearly' impossible. It's either possible or not possible.
To what did you pray?
Did you pray generically for 'nearly' impossible things or were you specific?
Can you tell us a few of the 'nearly' impossible things that happened?

Yes, to give you an example I prayed for a river flowing backwards and a few days later it was raining so hard - the river started flowing backwards. Nobody in my hometown had ever seen that happening. That was the most impossible thing that had happened.

 

[pocoloco]

May I kindly suggest you stop praying for horrible things to happen? Thank you.

I have stopped... it is just that I fear I am to blame and that I am scared what happens next because I have already prayed for terrible things that have not happened now.

Do you really think this is fun for me? It is the worst thing I ever did in my life and I really don't know what to do and if I had a wish for granted I would wish I never had that stupid idea.

 

[pocoloco]

My opinion: pray as hard as you like, your prayers will have no effect. What reliable studies have been done on the effectiveness of prayer bear this conclusion out.

I have had a look at those studies, some had significant results - some had not. To be honest: I am too stupid and do not know enough about statistics to understand which ones are best.

Do you know if they have also done studies on prayer for bad or neutral things?

 

[pocoloco]

You responded by asking that person to curse you, to bring an end to it all.

If you sincerely mean what you write in your OP about your diagnosis, then we (assorted strangers on the internet) can't help you - you need professional help. Go to the doctor who diagnosed you, or another doctor, and seek help.

You got me wrong. It did not ask him to curse me to "bring it all to an end". I asked him to curse me so that I could see that nothing happens if he does... I prayed for my own death, but it did not happen. I did not pray for it because I wanted to be dead, but because I wanted to be sure cursing does not work. When I did not die I thought "may be your own curse cannot kill you... but it is not really a proof it does not work... you need somebody else to curse you. That is why I asked him.

I sincerely mean what I posted about my diagnosis and I am seeing a psychiatrist and I am also on medication. I was seeing a psychotherapist and she really messed me up. I was not seeing her, because of magical thinking. I did not suffer from this then. I had suffered from it as a teenager and I managed to overcome. I was seeing that psychotherapist, because I suffer from health-related fears and one was that I was a schizophrenic. She told me I was not and she told me it was normal to believe in God and in the power of prayer. So that magical thinking started again... and I remembered that years ago when I was a teenager I prayed for me and my friends to end up in hell (I think because I did not want to be afraid of it any more). When my therapist told me praying was normal and might work, I was very worried and I bought a self help book... and from this book I learned I had to do the very things I was afraid of. So I started praying for bad things to happen. I just wanted to be brave and I was sure nothing bad would happen, but it did.

 

[pocoloco]

This is very important information!!!

This study was intended as a joke.

The Christmas issue of the BMJ (in which this study was published), is a joke issue. It isn't intended to be taken seriously.

Linda

Are you sure?

 

[pocoloco]

Thank you for your answers

 

[kerikiwi]

Yes, to give you an example I prayed for a river flowing backwards and a few days later it was raining so hard - the river started flowing backwards. Nobody in my hometown had ever seen that happening. That was the most impossible thing that had happened.

Where and when did this happen?
It must have made the news.

 

[fls]

Are you sure?

Are you serious?! Did you read it?! Did you read the other articles in the issue?!

I don't know what's worse - yet another demonstration that Poe's Law is true, or that most excellent satire went to waste. Sigh.

Linda

 

[kerikiwi]

It is the worst thing I ever did in my life

You didn't actually 'do' anything.

 

[pocoloco]

Where and when did this happen?
It must have made the news.

In a little town in Germany. I do not want to name my hometown on this board, but I could send you a private mail.

 

[kerikiwi]

In a little town in Germany. I do not want to name my hometown on this board, but I could send you a private mail.

Did it make the news? I mean a river flowing backwards is pretty impressive.