Moderated Thermite: Was it there or not?

[Longfellow]

And it's been implicated in the government distribution of DHMO -- dihydrogen monoxide. Virtually every water system in the U.S. shows traces of this dangerous substance!

Emphasis mine.

That should read: "Every single water system in the U.S. shows traces of this dangerous substance"

Insidious stuff that dihydrogen monoxide.

 

[McHrozni]

That should read: "Every single water system in the U.S. shows traces of this dangerous substance"

Insidious stuff that dihydrogen monoxide.

Couldn't stop myself

McHrozni

 

[ImANiceGuy]

But you didn't present E) as an option...You haven't looked very hard...

An additional choice, option E)none of the above, is acceptable.

Hilarious irony. However, I neglected to bold the "E", so you get a pass...thats nice of me right?

Can no one play the Devil's Advocate at JREF? Or are you all beyond reproach? A truly wise person should be capable of differentiating between what you call a "Truther" and a genuine, honest researcher. I remember someone(someone famous like Paris Hilton or Nelson Mandela) saying they thought Gladwell was the greatest 21st C intellectual because he was capable of first listening, then accepting new information

I have never claimed, like many others, to just be asking questions.....and I have never ran from a thread, I'm happy to answer any questions you might have about my specific opinions, if it will allow us to have a simple conversation without calling names....

 

[TexasJack]

I have never claimed, like many others, to just be asking questions.....and I have never ran from a thread, I'm happy to answer any questions you might have about my specific opinions,

We're not interested in your opinions, we're interested in evidence

if it will allow us to have a simple conversation without calling names.

Oh you mean like you do, or did you forget already

Carl, are you dense?

 

[Newtons Bit]

Can no one play the Devil's Advocate at JREF? Or are you all beyond reproach? A truly wise person should be capable of differentiating between what you call a "Truther" and a genuine, honest researcher. I remember someone(someone famous like Paris Hilton or Nelson Mandela) saying they thought Gladwell was the greatest 21st C intellectual because he was capable of first listening, then accepting new information

If you still think 9/11 MIGHT be an inside job after 8 years then you need to get your head examined.

 

[TruthersLie]

The problem is that this applies to S Jones and co's attitudes and beliefs of nanothermite, thermite and thermate

 

[tsig]

Hilarious irony. However, I neglected to bold the "E", so you get a pass...thats nice of me right?

Can no one play the Devil's Advocate at JREF? Or are you all beyond reproach? A truly wise person should be capable of differentiating between what you call a "Truther" and a genuine, honest researcher. I remember someone(someone famous like Paris Hilton or Nelson Mandela) saying they thought Gladwell was the greatest 21st C intellectual because he was capable of first listening, then accepting new information

I have never claimed, like many others, to just be asking questions.....and I have never ran from a thread, I'm happy to answer any questions you might have about my specific opinions, if it will allow us to have a simple conversation without calling names....

Who did it?

How did they do it?

Why did they do it?

 

[HeyLeroy]

Emphasis mine.

That should read: "Every single water system in the U.S. shows traces of this dangerous substance"

Insidious stuff that dihydrogen monoxide.

It's found in malignant tumours too, right?

 

[Longfellow]

[qimg]http://www.dhmo.org/images/dhmobanner.gif[/qimg]

Couldn't stop myself

McHrozni

It's found in malignant tumours too, right?

Dihydrogen Monoxide is some serious shiznit. There's even a website about it: DHMrg

 

[ImANiceGuy]

We're not interested in your opinions, we're interested in evidence

Well Jack, if I ever decide to make a claim based on one of my opinions, I'll be sure to present my evidence and if I called Carl dense, he most probably was. Meanwhile, my own opinion is being given to me based on assumptions; I have never received the benefit of doubt...

I do not seek to prove that Dr. Steven Jones found *.*Therm*.* in the WTC dust, either directly or indirectly. All I would like to know is the truth of the matter. So I guess that makes me a Truther.

I'm reading all about the paint right now. I look forward to posting my reply.

Who did it?

How did they do it?

Why did they do it?

The Conspirators.

Terror.

Control.

 

[Sam.I.Am]

Dihydrogen Monoxide is some serious shiznit. There's even a website about it: DHMrg

There was a machine (well two of them actually) on my boat that used pure DMHO that was an extreme fire and explosion hazard because it separated the molecular components of DMHO. It's use was so vital that we had to risk using it.

 

[TexasJack]

Well Jack, if I ever decide to make a claim based on one of my opinions, I'll be sure to present my evidence and if I called Carl dense, he most probably was

Oh I get it iceguy, it's ok for you to call people names, but not vice versa. Got it.

 

[beachnut]

Who did it?

How did they do it?

Why did they do it?

Who - 19 terrorists without thermite

How - killed 8 pilots and others so they could crashed planes into buildings with no thermite in them

Why - stupidity ... like 911 conspiracy theorists they were duped by idiotic ideas; a faith based cult

No thermite was used to destroy the WTC towers, WTC 7, the Pentagon, or Flight 93. A few conspiracy minded people are fooled by the moronic ideas of Jones about thermite. With proper reading comprehensions skill you can see Jones is a liar in seconds.

 

[R.Mackey]

Hilarious irony. However, I neglected to bold the "E", so you get a pass...thats nice of me right?

Except for the fact that option "E" did not appear in your original phrasing of the question... and your later amendment didn't resolve you of the problem. That problem is this: Dr. Jones has misidentified many substances as thermite of one sort or another, and you demanded a consensus on only one explanation.

In any case, since you haven't argued -- or even commented on -- the facts as I explained them to you, I'll assume the matter is settled. There was no thermite.

Can no one play the Devil's Advocate at JREF? Or are you all beyond reproach? A truly wise person should be capable of differentiating between what you call a "Truther" and a genuine, honest researcher. I remember someone(someone famous like Paris Hilton or Nelson Mandela) saying they thought Gladwell was the greatest 21st C intellectual because he was capable of first listening, then accepting new information

You've brought no information. Nor is there a "Devil's Advocate" position to be found here. There was only a question of evidence and fact, not of opinion. I suppose you could still support Dr. Jones and his claims, but that's not "devil's advocate." The proper name for it is "wrong."

 

[Dave Rogers]

I do not seek to prove that Dr. Steven Jones found *.*Therm*.* in the WTC dust, either directly or indirectly. All I would like to know is the truth of the matter. So I guess that makes me a Truther.

The truth of the matter, as far as I can tell, is (F) Not exactly none of the above, and not exactly all. The following is my opinion and deduction and should not be taken as proven fact.

Steven Jones appears to have started from the unquestioned belief that the collapse of the Twin Towers was caused by destructive devices placed within it by conspirators within the US Government. This belief, I suspect, was idealogical rather than evidence-based. However, he quickly ran into the difficulty that the only known devices for causing such a collapse were demolition explosives, and he was sufficiently non-delusional to realise that the sharp and extremely loud sounds made by such explosives immediately prior to collapse were absent from audio recordings of the collapses, and that this was concincing evidence that such explosives had not been used. Therefore, in order to save his hypothesis, he had to postulate a device or substance capable of severing the steel support structure of the towers without creating loud noises.

His answer to this conundrum was to hypothesise the use of a thermite reaction, which is known to generate sufficiently high temperatures to melt steel. This required him to attribute nonexistent and often self-contradictory properties to thermite, but he has so far managed to delude himself sufficiently to ignore this problem. His mission, therefore, has been to find evidence that there was thermite present in the Twin Towers. His belief is that this will prove that their collapse was due to thermite-based devices. Again, there is a problem with this backward reasoning, because logic is not reversible; "all A are B" does not imply "all B are A", and as a result Jones's logic is generally based on the fallacy of affirming the consequent, a classic symptom of trying to formulate a proof based on backward reasoning.

Jones's approach, therefore, has been to sift through the evidence, modifying it occasionally to suit his purposes, for items that appear superficially consistent with the presence of thermite in the Twin Towers. These specific items are presented as irrefutable proof, while any and all items of evidence that contradict the hypothesis are simply ignored; these include the internal contradictions of the hypothesis itself.

The origin of thermite particles, therefore, is not physical but psychological; they originate from the imagination of Steven Jones, and the evidence for their existence is carefully selected, and where necessary edited, by him.

Dave

 

[bill smith]

The truth of the matter, as far as I can tell, is (F) Not exactly none of the above, and not exactly all. The following is my opinion and deduction and should not be taken as proven fact.

Steven Jones appears to have started from the unquestioned belief that the collapse of the Twin Towers was caused by destructive devices placed within it by conspirators within the US Government. This belief, I suspect, was idealogical rather than evidence-based. However, he quickly ran into the difficulty that the only known devices for causing such a collapse were demolition explosives, and he was sufficiently non-delusional to realise that the sharp and extremely loud sounds made by such explosives immediately prior to collapse were absent from audio recordings of the collapses, and that this was concincing evidence that such explosives had not been used. Therefore, in order to save his hypothesis, he had to postulate a device or substance capable of severing the steel support structure of the towers without creating loud noises.

His answer to this conundrum was to hypothesise the use of a thermite reaction, which is known to generate sufficiently high temperatures to melt steel. This required him to attribute nonexistent and often self-contradictory properties to thermite, but he has so far managed to delude himself sufficiently to ignore this problem. His mission, therefore, has been to find evidence that there was thermite present in the Twin Towers. His belief is that this will prove that their collapse was due to thermite-based devices. Again, there is a problem with this backward reasoning, because logic is not reversible; "all A are B" does not imply "all B are A", and as a result Jones's logic is generally based on the fallacy of affirming the consequent, a classic symptom of trying to formulate a proof based on backward reasoning.

Jones's approach, therefore, has been to sift through the evidence, modifying it occasionally to suit his purposes, for items that appear superficially consistent with the presence of thermite in the Twin Towers. These specific items are presented as irrefutable proof, while any and all items of evidence that contradict the hypothesis are simply ignored; these include the internal contradictions of the hypothesis itself.

The origin of thermite particles, therefore, is not physical but psychological; they originate from the imagination of Steven Jones, and the evidence for their existence is carefully selected, and where necessary edited, by him.

Dave

'...modifying it occasionally to suit his purposes '

Can you enlarge on what you think his 'purposes' might have been Dave ? And a little clarification on what exactly you think he may have'modified' might be interesting.

 

[Dave Rogers]

Can you enlarge on what you think his 'purposes' might have been Dave ?

To manufacture proof to bolster his belief system. He believes he knows The Truth, but he can't prove it; therefore, if he just fudges the data a little, it's in the service of good so it's a pardonable sin. He expects, of course, that even if he's had to alter the evidence a little, his conclusions will eventually be proven correct, so his subterfuge will be overlooked because it led to the discovery of The Truth. A bit like corrupt policemen fabricating evidence to help convict someone they just know is guilty, but they can't prove guilty before a court; the ends will eventually justify the means.

And a little clarification on what exactly you think he may have'modified' might be interesting.

Colour values on photographs, for one, I think he may have modified. He has certainly used some fairly tortuous logic to claim that various observations suggest other than what they actually suggest, and has certainly tried implicitly to 'modify' the known melting point of iron by suggesting that a temperature of 1200ºC indicates molten iron.

As I said, this is all my opinion rather than verified fact.

Dave

 

[bill smith]

To manufacture proof to bolster his belief system. He believes he knows The Truth, but he can't prove it; therefore, if he just fudges the data a little, it's in the service of good so it's a pardonable sin. He expects, of course, that even if he's had to alter the evidence a little, his conclusions will eventually be proven correct, so his subterfuge will be overlooked because it led to the discovery of The Truth. A bit like corrupt policemen fabricating evidence to help convict someone they just know is guilty, but they can't prove guilty before a court; the ends will eventually justify the means.



Colour values on photographs, for one, I think he may have modified. He has certainly used some fairly tortuous logic to claim that various observations suggest other than what they actually suggest, and has certainly tried implicitly to 'modify' the known melting point of iron by suggesting that a temperature of 1200ºC indicates molten iron.

As I said, this is all my opinion rather than verified fact.

Dave

Ah......

 

[Dave Rogers]

Ah......

Bill, you see that "Quote" button at the bottom right corner? If you've got nothing to say, you don't have to press it.

Dave

 

[aggle-rithm]

And it's been implicated in the government distribution of DHMO -- dihydrogen monoxide. Virtually every water system in the U.S. shows traces of this dangerous substance!

That's why I gave up the stuff. From now on, only oil-based beverages!