Evidence for why we know the New Testament writers told the truth.

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Wally said:
Almost all of the tombs of the Pharaohs in Egypt have been found to be empty, does that make them divine too?
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:D :rolleyes: Of course it does. Pharaohs were deemed to be gods by their subjects. Or it could be that their bodies, like christ's were stolen.
[Always with the proviso whether Jesus existed of course] :cool:
 
Wally said:
Almost all of the tombs of the Pharaohs in Egypt have been found to be empty, does that make them divine too?
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[DOC]
Would tens of thousands of workers have toiled at building pyramids if they didn't believe the Pharaohs of Egypt were divine?
[/DOC]
 
First of all, the false logic, then I'll go to those links.

DOC said:
-The empty tomb is a fact.
Non sequitur. What empty tomb?
-That this Phd. in astrophysics makes a very strong case that prophecy is true (well at least 10 to the 2000th degree true) is a fact.

http://www.reasons.org/fulfilled-prophecy-evidence-reliability-bible
To be followed up in my next post.
-thousands of changed lives is a fact.
Argumentum ad populum.

-that most historians believe Jesus existed is a fact.
And that is proof of what?
-the Bible is the greatest selling book of all time is a fact.
Argumentum ad populum

-that some people like Thomas Jefferson say the teachings of Christ are the most moral and sublime the world has known is a fact.
An appeal to authority, an authority who made his own version of the NT, cutting out the jive.
-that there is good historical evidence for the resurrection is a fact:

http://www.leaderu.com/everystudent/easter/articles/josh2.html
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To be dealt with in a later post.

So once the false logic is swept aside, what to we have?
2 links and a generalised academic opinion that JC existed.
And various empty tombs in an ancient city.
 
DOC said:
-That this Phd. in astrophysics makes a very strong case that prophecy is true (well at least 10 to the 2000th degree true) is a fact.

http://www.reasons.org/fulfilled-prophecy-evidence-reliability-bible
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Well, I went there. I tried to find more details about mr Ross's PhD etc, but got a 'not found' message. Still, I like the man's taste in ties, a lot more than his fulfilled profecies.
I'll cite one. As far as I could tell, all of the 13 examples are along the same lines

(2) In approximately 700 B.C. the prophet Micah named the tiny village of Bethlehem as the birthplace of Israel's Messiah (Micah 5:2). The fulfillment of this prophecy in the birth of Christ is one of the most widely known and widely celebrated facts in history.

(Probability of chance fulfillment = 1 in 105.)
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I find reading a grown man (with an alleged PhD) doing this sort of thing really embarrassing.
The 'calculation' of odds has to be read to be believed.

And yes, you've guessed it, the proof of the fulfillment of these biblical prophecies come from...the Bible. And anonymous 'secular' historians.

Ah, well.
 
pakeha said:
Well, I went there. I tried to find more details about mr Ross's PhD etc, but got a 'not found' message. Still, I like the man's taste in ties, a lot more than his fulfilled profecies.
I'll cite one. As far as I could tell, all of the 13 examples are along the same lines



I find reading a grown man (with an alleged PhD) doing this sort of thing really embarrassing.
The 'calculation' of odds has to be read to be believed.

And yes, you've guessed it, the proof of the fulfillment of these biblical prophecies come from...the Bible. And anonymous 'secular' historians.

Ah, well.
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Funny thing is that Scholars don't agree on this "fact". Father Murphy-O'Connor considers the Census story (the story that was needed to get Jesus to Bethlehem) complete nonsense.
 
Well.
I went around to that second site mentioned by DOC.
I think it's easily the worst site to date I've seen by the apologetics, though if anyone knows of one even more awful, let me know.
Hmm.
Is there a thread here?
Anyway.
1st example of the peerless logic used here:
Dr. Edwin M. Yamauchi, associate professor of history at Miami University in Oxford, Ohio, emphasizes: "What gives a special authority to the list (of witnesses) as historical evidence is the reference to most of the five hundred brethren being still alive. St. Paul says in effect, 'If you do not believe me, you can ask them.' Such a statement in an admittedly genuine letter written within thirty years of the event is almost as strong evidence as one could hope to get for something that happened nearly two thousand years ago."
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OK. Because Paul said so.
I ploughed on and found this gem:

HOSTILE WITNESSES
Another factor crucial to interpreting Christ's appearances is that He also appeared to those who were hostile or unconvinced.

Over and over again, I have read or heard people comment that Jesus was seen alive after His death and burial only by His friends and followers. Using that argument, they attempt to water down the overwhelming impact of the multiple eyewitness accounts. But that line of reasoning is so pathetic it hardly deserves comment. No author or informed individual would regard Saul of Tarsus as being a follower of Christ. The facts show the exact opposite. Saul despised Christ and persecuted Christ's followers. It was a life-shattering experience when Christ appeared to him. Although he was at the time not a disciple, he later became the apostle Paul, one of the greatest witnesses for the truth of the resurrection.
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Once again, the source is Paul.

The author of this is one Josh McDowell, who even trots out that embarrassing Ramsay misquote!
And DOC thinks this site proves the ressurrection of Jesus?
 
DOC said:
-snip.
--thousands of changed lives is a fact.
snip.
http://www.leaderu.com/everystudent/easter/articles/josh2.html
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drugs -- millions of changed lives is a fact.
So drugs are thousand times as effective as Jesus!
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RoboTimbo said:
[DOC]
Would tens of thousands of workers have toiled at building pyramids if they didn't believe the Pharaohs of Egypt were divine?
[/DOC]
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I think I just stumbled onto the most important theological discovery of the century:

Jesus was the last Pharaoh!!!!:jaw-dropp
 
DOC said:
So you're saying a Ph.D. in Systematic Theology from Boston University and a pastor who published a book of his sermons is not a Bible scholar.
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... Yes? :confused:


His dissertation, regardless of the fact that it was apparently quite heavily plagiarized -thanks, I didn't know that- was about Paul Tillich, a 20th century theologian, thought about the subject. Technically, MLK didn't have to even open a Bible for the duration of his Ph.D.



Wait a minute... Are you arguing from (irrelevant) authority again?
 
DOC said:
If you read my 950+ posts in this thread you'll understand why I think they haven't been demolished. If you disagree then that is your right.
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Evidence for why we know the New Testament writers told the truth

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You're doing it wrong.
 
Wow Doc,an ancient city with empty tombs! Who would have thought it! I'm convinced!
 
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