It's over on Health Care.

dudalb

Penultimate Amazing
dudalb
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Obama is giving signs he is willing to abadon the public option in favor of some Insurance Coop plan.
So we will get a waterdoned bill that will probably not solve the problem.
A great day for the Rush Limbaughs of the world.
And the Democrats once again show their basic problem: they don't have the guts to make a tough choice.
 
I see the problem as the Blue Dogs wanting to be re-elected.

And the public v coop is just one aspect of reform.
 
No public option, no Obama second term.

ETA: Unless Palin is the Republican nominee. If Obama doesn't have a public option in the legislation, I doubt somebody like Mitt Romney would let that happen. Mitt would have the perfect opening.
 
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dudalb said:
Obama is giving signs he is willing to abadon the public option in favor of some Insurance Coop plan.
So we will get a waterdoned bill that will probably not solve the problem.
A great day for the Rush Limbaughs of the world.
And the Democrats once again show their basic problem: they don't have the guts to make a tough choice.
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Im sorry...how is a non-profit member owned Co-op...a bad thing???

anyone who cant afford it will have it subsidized by the govt. but the govt. will not control or run the co-op.

as long as most Americans have health insurance, that is all that matters....right???

this is about protecting the American people...right??

this isn't about making the Republicans look stupid..right?

this isn't about installing socialist-like programs...right?

a massive government health insurance plan, is kinda sorta socialist. but i don't care. i don't mind it.
i also don't mind if we go the co-op route. as long as the protections that Obama has proposed still are part of the plan.

:confused:
 
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When did we decide that the public option was the only part of the plan worth doing?

The idea is to get those tens of millions of uninsured in the pool, and to help the people who are getting left out in the cold by shady insurance practices. The bill still is about preventing them from denying coverage due to pre-existing conditions etc, still introduces competition (including non-profit competition funded by public money at start-up) to try to force these prices down.

The public option wasn't even 10% of what he was trying to do here. It was, however, the most expensive and most contentious part.

This is how compromise works.
 
David Wong said:
The public option wasn't even 10% of what he was trying to do here. It was, however, the most expensive and most contentious part.

This is how compromise works.
Click to expand...

totally. the public option is not what is important. only petty Republican pigs (and Socialists who want the USA to go the way of Britain) would see this as a defeat for Obama
 
parky76 said:
totally. the public option is not what is important. only petty Republican pigs (and Socialists who want the USA to go the way of Britain) would see this as a defeat for Obama
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I don't see the lack of a public option as a defeat for Obama, necessarily. I see 2012 as a defeat for Obama if there's no public option in what happens.
 
boloboffin said:
I don't see the lack of a public option as a defeat for Obama, necessarily. I see 2012 as a defeat for Obama if there's no public option in what happens.
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honestly, any vote that approves all of Obama's health care reforms, with a co-op instead of a govt. health care option, will be seen as a victory for Obama..for bipartisanship, and for the USA.

but a defeat...for Hannity..Rush..and the GOP demagogue Obama-haters.
 
The more Dr. Obama talks to audiences in that fake street dialect in a pathetic attempt to try to connect wit da common man, the more I know he's sinking.
 
parky76 said:
honestly, any vote that approves all of Obama's health care reforms, with a co-op instead of a govt. health care option, will be seen as a victory for Obama..for bipartisanship, and for the USA.

but a defeat...for Hannity..Rush..and the GOP demagogue Obama-haters.
Click to expand...

Perhaps in the beginning, but not by me and not by people to whom Obama lied to get elected.

And then the inevitable implementation problems will occur, and the Republicans will harp and harp and harp on them, and public opinion will turn, and in the primary and general, Obama will turn back to us...

...and we won't be there.

All of this is presumed on no public option, the continued stalemate for gay rights, the continued privacy issues, etc., - issues I care most about, plus the Republicans smarting up and not putting someone like Palin forward. Obama can remember his victories in February 2013 back in Chicago if that occurs.
 
David Wong said:
When did we decide that the public option was the only part of the plan worth doing?

The idea is to get those tens of millions of uninsured in the pool, and to help the people who are getting left out in the cold by shady insurance practices. The bill still is about preventing them from denying coverage due to pre-existing conditions etc, still introduces competition (including non-profit competition funded by public money at start-up) to try to force these prices down.

The public option wasn't even 10% of what he was trying to do here. It was, however, the most expensive and most contentious part.

This is how compromise works.
Click to expand...

That is pretty much my view.
But my fighting so hard for the Public Option, Obama is going to make anything less seem like a defeat.
And I am concerned that tactics like those used at the Town Meetings seemed to have worked. There is a lot about Obamacare I have problems with (like who is going to pay for it..I am very skeptical that it could be paid for by a modest increase in tax rates for the upper income level) but it was not the valid problems that were being discussed at the Town Meetings. It was crap like "Death Boards" and Abortion. That this kind of thing works is not good for the country.
 
boloboffin said:
Perhaps in the beginning, but not by me and not by people to whom Obama lied to get elected.

And then the inevitable implementation problems will occur, and the Republicans will harp and harp and harp on them, and public opinion will turn, and in the primary and general, Obama will turn back to us...

...and we won't be there.

All of this is presumed on no public option, the continued stalemate for gay rights, the continued privacy issues, etc., - issues I care most about, plus the Republicans smarting up and not putting someone like Palin forward. Obama can remember his victories in February 2013 back in Chicago if that occurs.
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I would not bet money on the GOP wising up by 2012.

And, frankly, you are way,way, overestimatng the number of voters who are as far to the left as you are.
And Obama ran, and was elected as, a centrist,not someone out there on the left. There are a lot more moderate voters out there then Hard Line Lefties.
 
dudalb said:
I would not bet money on the GOP wising up by 2012.

And, frankly, you are way,way, overestimatng the number of voters who are as far to the left as you are.
And Obama ran, and was elected as, a centrist,not someone out there on the left. There are a lot more moderate voters out there then Hard Line Lefties.
Click to expand...

Yeah, I'm listening to you on politics, dudalb.
 
That the strangle hold of the HMOs is broken is a victory with either the public option or co-ops. They must, of course, be not-for-profit. That is about 30% of the health-care outlay right there. Co-ops would probably bring it down to 5-10%.

If, after a couple years, it is still working, but not to public liking, there will be time to revisit the idea of a public option. (Just the thought of that might motivate a few people in leadership positions in the co-op to invent some good alternative methods.)

Whichever of these options comes out the Septemember end of the proces is still a slap in the face to the DirtTea Baggers and corporate dancing monkeys like the fat deaf eunuch who are trying to tell us that the market will fix it. This is the last chance the market will have and they had better make it work and not try to rip us off in the meantime.

Just the act of getting something good around the toads-in-the-roads GOP and Blue Cross Democrats would be good street cred for Obama.

To address Bolobofin's concerns about his indivual concerns that he does not see being addressed in other areas, I would say that it would probably help not to have too many of the flying monkey right wingers angry at one time and creating even more chaos. Do something great for the masses and they will not be as resistant to those measures which address the concerns of specific segments of society.
 
The most alarming aspect of the various healthcare plans out there, as assessed by the NY Times recently, is limits placed on the levels of healthcare insurance an individual can purchase. If I want to purchase gold-plated coverage for my family and myself with no limitations on medical procedures, I cannot do so under these plans.
 
Marc39 said:
If I want to purchase gold-plated coverage for my family and myself with no limitations on medical procedures, I cannot do so under these plans.
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Link, please.

And why do we care?

Pay it out of pocket like the poor have to now.
 
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