Truthers...what is your best piece of evidence ?

[A W Smith]

J

No plane hit WTC-7. The so-called damage caused by the falling towers isn't the cause of the collapse according to NIST. Nor is removed fireproofing. Thermal expansion is the reason according to NIST.

.

that is incorrect. The towers took out the infrastructure that was necessary to fight the fires. There was no water pressure available to fight the fires in a 47 story office building that by firefighter accounts, was fully involved. It was expected to collapse all afternoon. and it did.

 

[Ron_Tomkins]

My thoughts? Goddidit

 

[WUBRINY63]

how many times...

NIST reason for collapse of the towers: Removed fireproofing and building content fire.
NIST reason for collapse of WTC7: Thermal Expansion
How many times before 9/11 and since has this ever occurred? NEVER

 

[dtugg]

NIST reason for collapse of the towers: Removed fireproofing and building content fire.
NIST reason for collapse of WTC7: Thermal Expansion
How many times before 9/11 and since has this ever occurred? NEVER

Shockingly, you ignore all of my points. Go run back under your bridge.

 

[BigAl]

NIST reason for collapse of the towers: Removed fireproofing and building content fire.
NIST reason for collapse of WTC7: Thermal Expansion
How many times before 9/11 and since has this ever occurred? NEVER

You'd be wrong on both counts. Steel expansion and it's risks in fires in steel buildings has been on the FDNY Lieutenant's test for decades.

Source: Lieutenant's test "how much does a 100 ft beam expand"
http://snurl.com/j5434 [books_google_com]


Steel structures collapse due to fire quite regularly.

Examples: (sorry for the ugly layout. It's a work in progress. )


January of 1997 -- the $15 million dollar Sight and Sound Theater in Lancaster
County, Pa collapsed due to fire. <br> <br>

http://www.interfire.org/res_file/pdf/Tr-097.pdf <br> <br>


Historical Survey of Multistory Building Collapses Due to Fire <br>
By: Jesse Beitel and Nestor Iwankiw, Ph.D., P.E. <br> <br>
http://www.fpemag.com/archives/article.asp?issue_id=27&i=153 <br>

On Jan 16, 1967, the steel roof of the McCormick Place in Chicago
collapsed due to fire <br> <br>



Enigma Business Park fire <br> <br>
http://www.bbc.co.uk/herefordandwor...s/2006/11/03/malvern_fire_video_feature.shtml
<br> <br>

Dutch fire <br> <br>
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZaK5YVVaRCo
<br> <br>

------------ <br> <br>

September/October 2002 <br> <br>

Bridge Rebuilt on the Fast Track <br>
by Timothy Barkley and Gary Strasburg <br>

When a crash occurs on a main travel artery, it can back up traffic for
miles-causing a chain reaction affecting every route in the vicinity. If the
incident occurs at an interchange of three major highways and destroys a
well-traveled bridge, transportation officials have the makings of a major
congestion emergency. <br> <br>

This exact scenario occurred at the junction of Interstates 65, 20,and 59 in
downtown Birmingham, AL, on Saturday, January 5, 2002. At approximately 10 a.m., a
gasoline tanker truck hit the I-65 Southbound bridge. Fire and heat caused the steel
girders to sag up to 3 meters (10 feet) on one side. The interchange was engulfed in
smoke that filled the skyline, visible to motorists and residents of the city.
<br><br>

------------------------------------------------------------------- <br>

Steel building collapsses due to fire. <br><br>

http://www.charleston.net/news/2007/jun/20/mourning_heroes/ <br><br>

Mourning 9 heroes <br>
By Noah Haglund (Contact), Nadine Parks (Contact), Glenn Smith (Contact)
The Post and Courier <br>
Wednesday, June 20, 2007 <br><br>


'Fearless' Charleston firefighters 'will never be forgotten,' Riley says Capt. Ralph
Linderman of the St. Andrews Fire Department said the blaze was the hottest he could
recall in three decades of firefighting. "That fire bent steel like a wet noodle,"
he said. <br><br>

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charleston_Sofa_Super_Store_fire <br>
<br><br>
---------------- <br>

(04-29) 12:51 PDT -- A huge ball of fire from an exploding gasoline tanker melted
steel and caused an overpass in the MacArthur Maze near the East Bay end of the Bay
Bridge to collapse onto the roadway below early Sunday, virtually ensuring major
traffic problems for weeks to come. <br><br>

The tanker, loaded with 8,600 gallons of unleaded gasoline, was heading from a
refinery in Benicia to a gas station on Hegenberger Road, in Oakland, shortly
before 4 a.m. when it crashed. <br><br>

Engineers not connected to the incident said the steel underbelly of the I-580
overpass seems to have heated to a sufficient temperature to bend -- and that
movement pulled the roadbed off its supports. <br><br>

"It was so much engulfed in flames, it was hard to see the freeway itself,"
Rodriguez told KCBS radio. "It was scary because, you know, it's metal and
cement... You could see the freeway drooping. It looked like plastic melted. It was
unbelievable. It was bent and finally it just fell and we saw it hit the ground."
<br><br>


http://sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/chronicle/archive/2007/04/29/BAGVOPHQU46.DTL
<br><br>

------------------------------- <br><br>


1989 FIRE CLOSES I-78, FORCES DETOURS <br>
http://www.nycroads.com/roads/I-78_NJ/ <br>

FIRE CLOSES I-78, FORCES DETOURS: In the early morning hours of August 7, 1989, a
multiple-alarm fire at an illegal garbage dump underneath I-78 near Newark Airport
caused heavy damage to the freeway overpass. The source of the fire was a mound of
trash 25 feet tall and hundreds of yards long consisting of scrap wood, plastics
and paper. The heat of the fire buckled the ten-inch concrete surface and melted
steel support beams, and the resulting weight shifts from the highway

 

[A W Smith]

NIST reason for collapse of the towers: Removed fireproofing and building content fire.
NIST reason for collapse of WTC7: Thermal Expansion
How many times before 9/11 and since has this ever occurred? NEVER

Irrelevant. "first time in history" logical fallacy. Yours is a simple argument from ignorance. I can cite numerous events that have occurred only one time in history and not occurred since. Hyatt Regency sky walk disaster is one single example. Dismissed.

 

[triforcharity]

MikeW and dtugg - Damn, you're good!



Here's a couple to be going along with. At what point did the official investigation rule out the possibility of additional demolition devices being used in towers 1,2 and 7? If during the clean-up operation they hadn't even considered the possibility, what chance would they have of finding anything once questions were being asked?

Did you also look for who left their bathtub running in New Orleans when IT was flooded?? As some others here know, I was a firefighter that survived that horrid day. I saw no bombs, or anything that I thought might be confused for bombs. I was there about 10 minutes after the first plane hit, and didn't leave lower Manhattan for about a week after 9/11. Even then, it wasn't for very long. I spent a total of about 3 months there. I never thought for ONE SECOND that bombs were anywhere near that building.

When you have 1000's of people that saw the collapse, and not one thought that it was a bomb, than I would say that a bomb was not the cause.

 

[TokenMac]

Hey, WUBRINY63

Can I play your game too?

First time in history thermite was used in a CD.
First time in history a CD went from the top down.
First time in history a building with over 46 floors are in a CD.
First time in history a CD was done with out any signs of a CD.

Wow, I could be at this forever, you know what this isn't fun anymore.

 

[R.Mackey]

I'm trying to figure out how it's remotely possible that some newcomer -- ostensibly, Mr. WUBRINY63 -- has just been sitting on the sidelines all this time, and then suddenly just decides to burst on the scene at the JREF like a 21-gun salute, repeating the same nonsense we've heard for years...

Welcome, and good riddance. You have raised no valid criticism of NIST nor of the many other, independent evaluations that are out there, in peer reviewed literature. Why waste your time? You won't be wasting mine.

 

[triforcharity]

I don't recall mentioning the Pentagon or Shanksville, but I accept I was wrong about what I did mention, despite the finding of the passport being suspiciously fortuitous.



If AIDS had existed in 63, you'd have made a semi-valid point. Do you want to try again?

AIDS did in fact exist in the 1960's, but nobody knew exactly what it was, how it lived, or how it thrived.

http://www.redorbit.com/news/science/5866/war_in_africa_spread_an_aids_virus/index.html

Now, do YOU wanna try again?? You're not very bright some times eh??

 

[triforcharity]

A non-existent column is NIST's best piece of evidence.

So, you're saying that Column 79 did NOT exist at all?? Was it a ham sandwich that was there instead??

 

[triforcharity]

It means you still don't know what happened. But you keep pretending like you do. You also keep trying to imply things like 110 stories fell on wtc-7 when you know that's not the case.



It what mind does first time in history collapses occurring three times in one day because of two different reasons considered plausible?

Um, this was also the first time in history that 2 airliners were flown at high speeds into occupied buildings with the intent on mass murder.

Also, the first time that a highrise fire was never even attempted to be put out, at all. Not even in the first tower hit. WTC 7 burned over many floors for hours, without ever having a firefighter point a hose at it.


Do YOU know why WTC 7 collapsed?? I do. Why you ask?? I read the damn report, and saw exactly what they described. Uncontrolled fire and a large bulge in the building.

 

[triforcharity]

Jets have hit buildings before. The tower collapses aren't blamed on the planes hitting them even according to NIST. The towers took the impacts and most likely would have remained standing if it weren't for the building content fire and removed fireproofing according to NIST.

No plane hit WTC-7. The so-called damage caused by the falling towers isn't the cause of the collapse according to NIST. Nor is removed fireproofing. Thermal expansion is the reason according to NIST.

Both causes are new and NEVER before reasons for high-rise buildings to collapse.

WOW, a truther makes a statement, and they are almost ALL true!! Holy shnikeys!!

First, you are absolutely correct. If it weren't for the instant fires over many floors in WTC 1&2, the building might not have collapsed. BUT, if a plane DIDN'T hit it, there wouldn't have been fire over many floors.

If you take one of the pieces out of the equasion of WTC 1&2, it might still be here today. BUT, you cannot do that, as it happened.

Thermal expansion is not a new concept. As I said in my previous post, I am a firefighter. Steel buildings do NOT mix well with fire. ESPECIALLY unfought fires. The foam flame retardant is only rated for 1-2 hours AT BEST!! This is to help facilitate the firefighters getting people safely out, and being able to extinguish the fire. If the foam wasnt there, that building would have fallen much sooner. (WTC 7) Possibly, adding more deaths to the already huge death toll.

I will forewarn you sir/ma'am, you will never win an argument with me on fire. Just as you won't win an argument with any of the engineers here on engineering stuff. You appear to be uneducated or ignorant. I am not sure that it doesn't include both in your case.

 

[Dave Rogers]

I think it's a bit of a stretch to think that if FBI agents did notice such materials that you would have heard about it.

I think it's a bit of a stupid response, to an attempt to answer a serious question, to start from the assumption that the answer to the question cannot possibly disagree with the fantasy you can't even be bothered to assemble a consistent narrative for. And if you're right, and six thousand FBI agents and a thousand customs agents were conspiring to cover up the presence of explosives which can't possibly have had any involvement in the collapse anyway, then it would have been a pretty pointless question to ask whether they were looking for explosives in the first place. Therefore, either Ragnarok doesn't agree with your little derail, or the questions he's raised around 9/11 are deliberately phrased so as to be unanswerable, hence his quest for answers is a sham. Perhaps he doesn't want to be associated with you and your proven lies.

Dave

 

[Baylor]

NIST reason for collapse of the towers: Removed fireproofing and building content fire.
NIST reason for collapse of WTC7: Thermal Expansion
How many times before 9/11 and since has this ever occurred? NEVER

You're not going to be comparing a skyscraper to a barbecue this time around, are you?

 

[Arus808]

It means you still don't know what happened. But you keep pretending like you do. You also keep trying to imply things like 110 stories fell on wtc-7 when you know that's not the case.

reading comprehension is a problem for you (dont worry, seems that the entire truth movement is suffering from the same lack of skills).

He didn't say that 110 stories fell on WTC 7 - he said A 110 story building fell on WTC 7.

LEARN. TO. READ. There is a big difference in what you stated and what Aggie stated.

It what mind does first time in history collapses occurring three times in one day because of two different reasons considered plausible?

Yes. In reality its very plausible, since it happened.

There's always a first time for everything. Why do you guys hang on the "first time" thing.

 

[Arus808]

Jets have hit buildings before.

Yes, they have. However,

1) please give us a detail on the exact form of jets of these incidences
2) the type of buildings they crashed into
3) the speed at which the crash happened
4) and if emergency crews were able to fight the fires caused by these crashes.

The tower collapses aren't blamed on the planes hitting them even according to NIST.

So you are only pinning it on "1" event, when it was SEVERAL catastrophic events that lead to the collapse of each building? Aren't you being wholly dishonest by claiming this?

 

[Baylor]

reading comprehension is a problem for you (dont worry, seems that the entire truth movement is suffering from the same lack of skills).

He didn't say that 110 stories fell on WTC 7 - he said A 110 story building fell on WTC 7.

Wasn't there another poster who had poor reading comprehension skills and asked ill-posed questions to help him relieve his cognitive dissonance? Who was that poster?

 

[Wolrab]

Wasn't there another poster who had poor reading comprehension skills and asked ill-posed questions to help him relieve his cognitive dissonance? Who was that poster?

I believe you are referring to nearly every truther that posted here.

 

[twinstead]

Wasn't there another poster who had poor reading comprehension skills and asked ill-posed questions to help him relieve his cognitive dissonance? Who was that poster?

Dude. You're going to have to narrow that down a bit. Like Wolrab said, that's just about all of them.