Amway TV ad

[Tex2]

Almo, as usual you are mixing apples and oranges. There's a HUGE difference between an entry level job and starting a business. If you don't know any better, I suggest you leave this thread and concentrate on coloring, taking naps in the afternoon, etc. LOL

 

[Skeptic]

Almo, as usual you are mixing apples and oranges. There's a HUGE difference between an entry level job and starting a business.

Joining Amway is "starting a business" in the same sense that buying lottery tickets is "investing".

For starters, real business owners don't spend 90% of their time recruiting their own competition.

 

[icerat]

In MLM, your upline aren't your suppliers, they're middlemen who are skimming commissions.

You really know nothing at all about MLM do you? Until not so many years ago, everyone but "directs" bought their products off their upline. Some still do.

No differen

In non-MLM franchise business you don't generally

1. Purchase finished product paying huge commissions to fellow franchise owners.

What the heck does this crime against the english language mean?

2. Expect your end customers to also be franchise owners who you can collect commissions from.

Don't in Amway either. In our "system" for example we have an early recognition called "leader's club". For that you're expected to have introduced 5 people to the network, 4 of whom it's expected will be just customers, not operating a business, plus an additional 10 retail clients. That's 1 "franchise owner", a combined wholesale and retail customer, and 14 retail customers.

So much for expecting "end customers" to also be franchise owners.

 

[icerat]

Joining Amway is "starting a business" in the same sense that buying lottery tickets is "investing".

The way you seem to think it works, yeah. Fortunately it doesn't work that way. Not that you care much about reality.

For starters, real business owners don't spend 90% of their time recruiting their own competition.

Do you actually read the posts? This has already been addressed and I've given you unequivocal examples of "real business owners" who "recruit their own competition".

I could give them again, but why bother? Talk about brainwashed parrot speak. You just keep spouting out the same old mindless drivel.

 

[icerat]

The MLM mindset.
(emphasis mine, all spelling errors are original. I also edited out the monthly price).
disclaimer: This person is not talking about Amway, he's talking about another MLM, but in my mind, all MLMs are the same.

A bit of a huge leap of faith don't you think? Just believing, contrary to actual evidence, that thousands of different businesses are all "the same".

People don't even operate within Amway "the same".

It amazes me how for some topics people who supposedly value rationality just shut down their cerebral cortex and let the amygdala run amuck.

I'm sure Tex or icerat will disagree, but I see the "MLM business opportunity" as "convince other people to convince yet other people to convince more people that this is a good business".

MLM is a style of compensation plan, not a business opportunity.

If you can do that, yes you can make money, but that's exactly what a pyramid scam does.

Yup, sure is. And that's why a bunch of folk got kicked out of Amway a couple of years ago. They were doing something like that, breaking various of Amway's rules along the way, and Amway considered it verged on making that groups operations a pyramid.

By definition, if you're doing something that breaks Amway's rules, then you're not running an Amway business, you're doing something else.

BTW, as I've said before, one of the problems legitimate MLM firms have is that all the scams call themselves MLM, such that there may actually be more scams calling themselves MLM than there is actual real MLMs.

So quite frankly it's no wonder folk like yourself get confused. What the solution to that is, I don't know.

 

[Tex2]

Joining Amway is "starting a business" in the same sense that buying lottery tickets is "investing". ---- Except Almo compared Amway to working at McDonalds. Your "example" is just as weak.

For starters, real business owners don't spend 90% of their time recruiting their own competition.

Neither do IBOs. Your "recruits" add to your volume, they are NOT in competition. Clueless.

 

[Tex2]

icerat/insider/ibofb, nice to see you're posting again. Now answer the Bruce Anderson example response to your "nobody has ever given a single example...blah blah blah."

 

[NewtonTrino]

I wonder how many seasons tickets are going to be sold to amwayers for the orland magic.

 

[Tex2]

I wonder how long it will take for you to respond to the issue I raised regarding not being able and/or willing to discuss the Amway business without a tool scam. Will it be before or after ibofb/icerat/insider responds to the Bruce Anderson example mentioned above?

 

[Tex2]

Remember, a "no response" is simply an admission of being wrong.

 

[Porkchopjim]

Your "recruits" add to your volume, they are NOT in competition. Clueless.

Funny - that's not how Amway saw it when they were found guilty of price fixing...in order to prevent distributors from undercutting each other and 'keeping a level playing field.'

Now, in Tex's business (which is truly representative of Amway operations), downline are NOT competition because there is no market outside of those participating in the scam for the products. The only way to increase volume, other than buying it yourself, is to recruit others to buy from themselves. Through this endless chain - the newbies pay the bonus money for the older members, and the newbies have no chance of gaining any profit unless they can recruit someone else.

If it were a REAL business, then indeed downline recruits would be competition. After 16 years of valuable Amway training, Tex can not see that. Not to mention that he's been an 'internet business owner' for just one month shy of 10 years...so expecting him to have mastered the 'quote button' is a bit much.

34% of the price a distributor pays to Amway for products goes to pay bonuses. 34% does not make a lot of products competitive. Lack of competitive products means the distributors have to buy them themselves.

Icerat will defend this model because, for some reason, it doesn't matter if the new guy is getting screwed. As long as the new guy can recruit at least 1 other member, the new guy is now a 'wholesaler' unconcerned where the products go or where the profit comes from. Real 'wholesalers' actually have that concern.

So, no - Amway does NOT operate like other businesses not matter how hard he tries to convince himself it does.

 

[NewtonTrino]

Yeah but good luck convincing cultists to see the problem. Ultimately thisbthread is about saving people before they get suckered. You have been warned people! Don't let yourself end up like them.

 

[Tex2]

Funny - that's not how Amway saw it when they were found guilty of price fixing...in order to prevent distributors from undercutting each other and 'keeping a level playing field.' ---- I'm not talking about 30 years ago, I'm talking about 2009. Get a clue. LOL

Now, in Tex's business (which is truly representative of Amway operations), downline are NOT competition because there is no market outside of those participating in the scam for the products. The only way to increase volume, other than buying it yourself, is to recruit others to buy from themselves. Through this endless chain - the newbies pay the bonus money for the older members, and the newbies have no chance of gaining any profit unless they can recruit someone else. ---- Please don't tell that to my customers. LOL

If it were a REAL business, then indeed downline recruits would be competition. After 16 years of valuable Amway training, Tex can not see that. Not to mention that he's been an 'internet business owner' for just one month shy of 10 years...so expecting him to have mastered the 'quote button' is a bit much. ---- Amway is a "real business", just not a conventional business, because it's an MLM business. LOL

34% of the price a distributor pays to Amway for products goes to pay bonuses. 34% does not make a lot of products competitive. Lack of competitive products means the distributors have to buy them themselves. ---- There are several products I posted on qblog a while back that are competitively priced, and that was BEFORE the recent price reductions. Again, please don't tell my customers only IBOs buy products. LOL

Icerat will defend this model because, for some reason, it doesn't matter if the new guy is getting screwed. As long as the new guy can recruit at least 1 other member, the new guy is now a 'wholesaler' unconcerned where the products go or where the profit comes from. Real 'wholesalers' actually have that concern. ---- The new guy gets screwed by the tool scam, not by Amway. Every IBO, new or old, should be concerned about where the products go and where the profit comes from. I know I do. LOL
So, no - Amway does NOT operate like other businesses not matter how hard he tries to convince himself it does. ---- Amway has similarities and differences with other businesses, just like a franchise has similarities and differences with a hardware store. LOL

 

[Tex2]

Yeah but good luck convincing cultists to see the problem. Ultimately thisbthread is about saving people before they get suckered. You have been warned people! Don't let yourself end up like them.

If you think you're going to "save" many people on this little-known forum, you're clueless.

 

[Bob Klase]

If you think you're going to "save" many people on this little-known forum, you're clueless.

And you're spending hours and hours on this 'little-known' forum because....

 

[Skeptic]

Neither do IBOs. Your "recruits" add to your volume, they are NOT in competition.

Suppose that you run a McDonald's and convince a customer to open another McDonald's next door. Sure, you might get a commission -- PART of the profit -- from the customers he gets if he does just that, but why get a commission when you can get the entire profit by them eating at YOUR place instead?

I can understand this if the restaurants are apart -- say in different areas of town -- or if you are already working at full capacity and cannot accommodate more people, so you don't compete for the same customers.

But with Amway, you keep recruiting your friends and neighbors and co-workers, people who would be competing with you for the same potential clients, despite the fact that you could really use the extra clientele.

Oh wait, this is Amway. There ARE no real clients.

Never mind.

 

[icerat]

Funny - that's not how Amway saw it when they were found guilty of price fixing...in order to prevent distributors from undercutting each other and 'keeping a level playing field.'

crossline distributors are competitors. You do not recruit crossline distributors.

If it were a REAL business, then indeed downline recruits would be competition.

So you believe 7-11 stores are competition for Coca-Cola? They both compete in the retail space to sell Coke, and Coca-Cola inc makes more money per can if they sell direct to the consumer

Why is Coca-Cola so stupid that they sell to competitors?

 

[icerat]

This "you're recruiting competitors" thing is one of the dumbest most ignorant bits of rubbish I've seen out of "critics" for a long time. When they have to resort to BS like that it really goes to show what little they actually have to say.

 

[CynicalSkeptic]

This "you're recruiting competitors" thing is one of the dumbest most ignorant bits of rubbish I've seen out of "critics" for a long time. When they have to resort to BS like that it really goes to show what little they actually have to say.

If you're not actually retailing the product (or if you make more on commissions to another distributor then you do on the diff. between retail and wholesale) then you're correct.

Sorry, us skeptics don't understand a business model where instead of having end consumers, you rely on an infinite exponential increase in "distributors" who only buy products for themselves.

 

[Tex2]

Suppose that you run a McDonald's and convince a customer to open another McDonald's next door. Sure, you might get a commission -- PART of the profit -- from the customers he gets if he does just that, but why get a commission when you can get the entire profit by them eating at YOUR place instead? >>>> Because you have offered a poor analogy. The new IBO knows lots of people I don't know, and they may live in a different part of the city, county, state, nation, or world. You really ARE clueless, aren't you?

I can understand this if the restaurants are apart -- say in different areas of town -- or if you are already working at full capacity and cannot accommodate more people, so you don't compete for the same customers. >>>> Well, at least there is SOME hope for you. LOL

But with Amway, you keep recruiting your friends and neighbors and co-workers, people who would be competing with you for the same potential clients, despite the fact that you could really use the extra clientele. >>>> See above, the first response. Correction: There is very little hope for you. LOL

Oh wait, this is Amway. There ARE no real clients. >>>> Please don't tell my customers that! LOL

Never mind.

Don't worry, I'm not paying much attention to your garbage.