Bombshell: Bin Laden worked for US till 9/11

[Dave Rogers]

You originally posted that she was not under any sanctions; edited out I suppose. Here's a link to the SSP: http://www.usdoj.gov/opa/pr/2002/October/02_ag_605.htm

I'm a little confused here. State Secrets Privilege is a means by which the government can choose not to supply information to a court case where that information might compromise state secrets. It's therefore a means by which the government can avoid having to give testimony, not a means by which the government can compel others not to give testimony. Therefore it seems to me that the often repeated assertion, that Sibel Edmonds has twice been gagged by the government asserting SSP, cannot possibly be true.

It's clear that the government has declined to provide information requested by Edmonds's counsel in a court case; but this is radically different to a gag order. Nothing appears to be preventing Edmonds stating what she knows; the government has simply chosen not to state what it knows.

Can either ImANiceGuy, or one of our resident legal experts, correct me if I'm wrong on this?

Dave

 

[kevlar443]

Bombshell - Ralph Olberg - Cheri Seymour

FYI gunderson was interested in my case, a child abuse case, and he wormed his way into my life. It is a long story but he ended up working out of my house and because of illness, I quit my job and answered phone calls, sent out mail (whatever it was he was doing) and did research for him for a while.
Cheri Seymour aka Carole Marshall hung around my place along with a number of other characters, including Michael. She has a very fertile imagination. I still don't know what her reason was for writing what she did. Some is true some is not. I didn't know everything that was going on-thank God.
I threw gunderson out in 1993 and moved. He took us for almost every dime we (my 2 children and I) had, so I was unable to follow up on anything for years.
I had all of the files at my place-we were putting them together for Michael's defense.
I don't know why gunderson would have his webmaster (Chris Jones) now in prison for molesting little boys) would post that particular paper...but then you can never expect to figure out why a psycho does anything..

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Jacque:

You can find Ted Gunderson’s hand-written statement, dated 9/27/91, relative to RALPH OLBERG at Michael Riconosciuto's website.

Based on my understanding of Cheri Seymour's investigation relative to The Last Circle, she was tracking drug trafficking from Mariposa, California and contacted Ted Gunderson because he had written a lengthy report on drug trafficking in the Central Valley of California.

You wrote: "Seymour aka Carole Marshall hung around my place along with a number of other characters, including Michael."

In her various writings on this subject, Seymour noted that she only met Ted Gunderson (and you) face-to-face three times during her investigation in the early 1990's. She only visited your house twice. The first time, as noted in The Last Circle, was when she first met you and Ted Gunderson. The second time was at a birthday party held for Elizabeth Riconosciuto at Disneyland, and the third time was at your home when you were ill and Ted Gunderson was out-of-town.

In each of these instances, the visits only lasted a couple of hours, and there were no other "characters" hanging around your house when she was present, including Michael Riconosciuto, whom she never met face-to-face.

For purposes of clarity, can you explain why you said that she has a "fertile imagination" and some of what she wrote is not true? Your statements about Seymour in various of your writings on the Internet seem to indicate that you wish to debunk her, but you never explain in detail what she has written that is not true. Can you kindly explain? Thanks!

 

[kevlar443]

RE: Bombshell - Tim Osman - Osama Bin Laden

Ted Gunderson sent a handwritten statement/affidavit, dated 9/27/91 to Michael Riconosciuto’s lawyer to be used in court in M.R.’s defense.

That letter which discusses Gunderson and Riconosciuto meeting in 1986 with Ralph Olberg, Tim Osman and others relative to Afghan Resistance weaponry, does NOT mention anywhere in the statement that Osama Bin Laden was present at that meeting using any pseudonym or posing as Tim Osman or anyone else.

If Osama Bin Laden was at that meeting, Gunderson surely would have mentioned that in his statement. At the time Gunderson’s statement was written, and numerous copies were provided to various of Gunderson’s associates, reporters, and lawyers, he surely would have disclosed that one of the individuals at that meeting was Osama Bin Laden, but he did NOT. During Riconosciuto’s trial, and for years throughout the 1990’s, neither Gunderson nor M.R ever mentioned Osama Bin Laden , posing as Tim Osman, was at that meeting in 1986.

The letter can be viewed at Michael Riconosciuto’s Homepage. Click on “Paper Trails/FOIA-PA.” Then click on “Affidavit of Ted L. Gunderson re: meetings with Afghan resistance.” Then scroll down to 9/27/91 – Statement of Ted L. Gunderson.

 

[MikeW]

The letter can be viewed at Michael Riconosciuto’s Homepage. Click on “Paper Trails/FOIA-PA.” Then click on “Affidavit of Ted L. Gunderson re: meetings with Afghan resistance.” Then scroll down to 9/27/91 – Statement of Ted L. Gunderson.

Nice work! Here's the link.

 

[ImANiceGuy]

It seems to me that the SSP is able to block testimony, as well as withhold information/evidence. It has proven tough to find a concise definition of its scope of power. Edmonds was called to testify in the lawsuit brought on by 9/11 Families for Bankrupting Terrorism; which was recently dismissed due to the possibility of negatively affecting Ameri-Saud relations.

"9/11 Families United...has filed suit against these terrorist financiers and it has a particular interest in having Sibel Edmonds testify in its lawsuit. That testimony has been precluded by the government’s invocation of the state secrets privilege."

Taken from: http://www.citizen.org/documents/edmondsamicus.pdf (This has a lot of very good info, worth a read) If there is any legal experts, please chime in at any time as to how the SSP can be used to block private citizen testimony.

Gravy, you make an excellent point as to what the nature of the information withheld could be. However, it seems the use of the SSP would be very extreme if the information they were suppressing was unspecific in nature to Edmonds' claims. There are plenty of other ways to continue the case in court without revealing classified details that do not pertain directly to the case. ie. publication bans and attorney security clearances.

"The district court should have, but did not, assure itself that: 1) the case could not have been litigated to judgment without the introduction of properly classified information; and 2) the substantial array of procedures available to a court to permit the use of classified information without its revelation to the public..." (from previous link)

"the court still reasoned that no part of her complaint could proceed and the information she needed to prove her prima facie case could not be disentangled from the secret information the government sought to protect."

This statement could apply for both specific information as well as non-specific(methods,names, etc.).....anyone have an alternate impressions?

Taken from: http://legacy.lclark.edu/org/lclr/objects/LCB_11_1_Lyons.pdf

 

[MikeW]

**Mods...previous 2 posts are completely unrelated to this thread**

The "Tim Osman" claims don't have anything to do with Edmonds, but they're very much related to supposed connections between the US and bin Laden, as well as the other Gunderson and Riconosciuto posts scattered throughout the thread.

 

[ImANiceGuy]

The "Tim Osman" claims don't have anything to do with Edmonds, but they're very much related to supposed connections between the US and bin Laden, as well as the other Gunderson and Riconosciuto posts scattered throughout the thread.

Sorry about that; I thought this thread was specific to Edmonds' information re OBL, however, it seems we were merged together at some point.

I removed the message to the Mods.

signed,

a nice guy

 

[Senenmut]

RE: Bombshell - Tim Osman - Osama Bin Laden

Ted Gunderson sent a handwritten statement/affidavit, dated 9/27/91 to Michael Riconosciuto’s lawyer to be used in court in M.R.’s defense.

That letter which discusses Gunderson and Riconosciuto meeting in 1986 with Ralph Olberg, Tim Osman and others relative to Afghan Resistance weaponry, does NOT mention anywhere in the statement that Osama Bin Laden was present at that meeting using any pseudonym or posing as Tim Osman or anyone else.

If Osama Bin Laden was at that meeting, Gunderson surely would have mentioned that in his statement. At the time Gunderson’s statement was written, and numerous copies were provided to various of Gunderson’s associates, reporters, and lawyers, he surely would have disclosed that one of the individuals at that meeting was Osama Bin Laden, but he did NOT. During Riconosciuto’s trial, and for years throughout the 1990’s, neither Gunderson nor M.R ever mentioned Osama Bin Laden , posing as Tim Osman, was at that meeting in 1986.

The letter can be viewed at Michael Riconosciuto’s Homepage. Click on “Paper Trails/FOIA-PA.” Then click on “Affidavit of Ted L. Gunderson re: meetings with Afghan resistance.” Then scroll down to 9/27/91 – Statement of Ted L. Gunderson.

this link is where Michael wrote that tim osman was osama bin laden. this is pre 911. back in 1991, obl probably didnt raise any eyebrows. if ted was calling obl tim osman back in 86 then thats probably the name that came to mind.

bottom of page and #3
http://www.michaelriconosciuto.com/nine11/

 

[MikeW]

if ted was calling obl tim osman back in 86 then thats probably the name that came to mind.

He was still calling him Osman in 1991 - Gunderson's letter is dated after Riconosciuto.

 

[kevlar443]

RE: Bombshell – DATES of Expose Tim Osman/Osama Bin Laden

Michael Riconosciuto’s letter providing “prior warning” of an imminent attack against the United States was dated 2/5/2001. The letter gave no details naming Osama Bin Laden as the potential attacker, though it did state that Tim Osman was allegedly Osama Bin Laden, but only in relation to a meeting, NOT in relation to the potential attack.

However, keeping in mind that Michael Riconosciuto was/is a genius with high analytical powers, it wouldn’t take a genius in February 2001 to discern through “public sources” that Osama Bin Laden had already made threats against the United States as far back as 1998, including his alleged involvement in the 1998 U.S. Embassy Bombings in Africa.

Do a Google search of Osama Bin Laden, January 2001.

Check out Osama Bin Laden – Wikipedia:
EXCERPT: Caption: Clinton Administration

“ --- Capturing Osama bin Laden has been an objective of the United States government since the presidency of Bill Clinton. Shortly after the September 11 attacks it was revealed that President Clinton had signed a directive authorizing the CIA to apprehend bin Laden and bring him to the United States to stand trial after the 1998 United States embassy bombings in Africa; if taking bin Laden alive was deemed impossible, then deadly force was authorized.

"On August 20, 1998, 66 cruise missiles launched by United States Navy ships in the Arabian Sea struck bin Laden's training camps near Khost in Afghanistan, narrowly missing him by a few hours.

"In 1999 the CIA, together with Pakistani military intelligence, had prepared a team of approximately 60 Pakistani commandos to infiltrate Afghanistan to capture or kill bin Laden, but the plan was aborted by the 1999 Pakistani coup d'état;

"In 2000, foreign operatives working on behalf of the CIA had fired a rocket-propelled grenade at a convoy of vehicles in which bin Laden was traveling through the mountains of Afghanistan, hitting one of the vehicles but not the one bin Laden was in.

"In 2000, prior to the September 11 attacks, Paul Bremer characterized the Clinton administration as "correctly focused on bin Laden", while Robert Oakley actually criticized their "obsession with Osama ---“.

 

[kevlar443]

RE: Sibel Edmunds and Valerie Plame allegations

Check out the unwitting connection between Sibel Edmunds and Valerie Plame regarding “illegal weapons shipments”? Interestingly, both of these women observed and reported on corresponding subjects, thus making them “independent” supporting witnesses to each other!

 

[Pardalis]

Any opinions on Elsässer's research?

Originally Posted by wikipedia

MPRI[Military Professional Resources] is a private military contractor that provides a wide range of services to both public and private customers, most notably the United States Department of Defense. MPRI specializes in various professions such as law enforcement, security, military training, logistics, etc. By its own account MPRI operates in over 40 countries. The firm is based in Alexandria, Virginia.

A member of International Peace Operations Association (IPOA), MPRI was founded in 1987 by eight ex-officers of the United States Army. It was sold to L-3 Communications in June 2000 for $40 million.

Originally Posted by wikipedia

L-3 Communications Holdings, Inc. (NYSE: LLL) is a company that supplies command, control, communications, intelligence, surveillance and reconnaissance (C3ISR) systems and products, avionics and ocean products, training devices and services, instrumentation, space and navigation products. Its customers include the Department of Defense, Department of Homeland Security, U.S. Government intelligence agencies, aerospace contractors and commercial telecommunications and wireless customers.

L-3 is headquartered in New York City.

L-3 (named for Frank Lanza, Robert LaPenta, and Lehman Brothers) was formed in 1997 from the purchase of ten former business units of Lockheed Corporation when Lockheed merged in 1996 with Martin Marietta[2]; the ten units were those which the new Lockheed Martin was uninterested in owning.

L-3 has continued to grow since then through numerous acquisitions to become one of the top 10 US government contractors

Originally Posted by wikipedia

Lehman Brothers [...]

On September 11, 2001, Lehman occupied three floors of One World Trade Center where one employee was killed. Its global headquarters in Three World Financial Center were severely damaged and rendered unusable by falling debris, displacing over 6,500 employees. The bank recovered quickly and rebuilt its presence. Trading operations moved across the Hudson River to its Jersey City, New Jersey, facilities, where an impromptu trading floor was built and brought online less than forty-eight hours after the attacks. When stock markets reopened on September 17, 2001, Lehman's sales and trading capabilities were restored.

See, I'm a bit slow. I didn't see the connection, but now in light of new developments, I can see what you really meant in this post.

L-3 is a company composed of Frank Lanza, Robert LaPenta and the Lehman brothers.

Now, you didn't check the backgrounds of Lanza or LaPenta, their names didn't sound "Jewish" enough. But you did check the background of the Lehman brothers. And then you found a very random connection with the WTC towers, and then you concluded a conspiracy!

I understand your way of thinking better now. No wonder you've been so secretive about your views so far, I also wouldn't parade them around if I were you.

I feel a bit foolish, I didn't make the connection.