ESP and Reincarnation

[BobG]

I think you should begin by defining what it is that reincarnates, and explain how you think it's possible and why it's plausible for this reincanation to take place.

I've already done this!

 

[BobG]

For example, what's this blank slate/state or consciousness you speak of? How could it exist before you're born and after you die? What's it made of? How was it created? Does it have a purpose? Does it have an end? Why would it incarnate and reincarnate? What makes you think one blank state could be the reincarnation of another? They would have to have some common essence, that for example you and I don't share. Whats that essence? etc.

The blank state that I am talking about is a totally empty brain. It has nothing to do with the potential of the brain; it is just totally empty. It may be small. It may be large. It may have little potential for abstract thinking. It may have a great deal of potential for abstract thinking. It may be that of a human. It may be that of a dog.

However, it is that of a sentient being.

Bob Guercio

 

[BobG]

Then I don't think you'll find anybody who agrees with you, because I don't think your explanations make your version of reincarnation sound possible or plausible in any way.

For example, what's this blank slate/state or consciousness you speak of? How could it exist before you're born and after you die?

It doesn't exist while you don't exist. It comes into being upon your first entry into the universe and it ceases to exist after you exit the universe. It could come back but it probably won't. I certainly am not depending upon it for myself.

Bob Guercio

 

[BobG]

If it is "sufficiently developed te to be used by some people now and then", then it is absolutely testable. Yet, those who claim to have it can't pass scientific scrutiny.

Testing has not yet developed to a state sufficiently advanced to validate ESP. I believe that someday it will.

Another problem is there is a tremendous amount of fraud associated with ESP.

Bob

 

[BobG]

You seemed to have defined both ESP and reincarnation to be completely untestable and unfalsifiable and then chosen to believe in them.

I believe that I have defined reincarnation to be completely untestable. So be it! I can't help that!

I believe that I have defined ESP to be testable when the sophistication of testing reaches an appropriate level.

I am not sure what you mean by "unfalsifiable" but I've stated that a tremendous stumbling block to ESP verification is the fraud that is associated with it.

Bob

 

[Giggywig]

I believe that I have defined ESP to be testable when the sophistication of testing reaches an appropriate level.

I am not sure what you mean by "unfalsifiable" but I've stated that a tremendous stumbling block to ESP verification is the fraud that is associated with it.

Bob

What I mean by "unfalsifiable" is that it can't be shown to be false. You just need to claim that "the sophistication of testing has not reached an appropriate level." And on that point, what sophistication level is needed? If the effect is so small that our current level of sophistication can't find it, then how exactly does somebody who has ESP find out?

 

[BobG]

What I mean by "unfalsifiable" is that it can't be shown to be false. You just need to claim that "the sophistication of testing has not reached an appropriate level." And on that point, what sophistication level is needed? If the effect is so small that our current level of sophistication can't find it, then how exactly does somebody who has ESP find out?

A sufficient level of sophistication is needed to show that ESP does exist.

Currently, someone cannot find out if they have ESP; however, I believe that some people know that they have it.

A serious problem today is that we cannot separate these legitimate believers from the frauds.

Perhaps someday lie detecting may become sufficiently accurate so that this will not be a problem and scientists will be in a much better position to validate ESP.

Bob Guercio

 

[Tyooby]

The blank state that I am talking about is a totally empty brain. It has nothing to do with the potential of the brain; it is just totally empty. It may be small. It may be large. It may have little potential for abstract thinking. It may have a great deal of potential for abstract thinking. It may be that of a human. It may be that of a dog.

However, it is that of a sentient being.

Bob Guercio

I'm still unsure what exactly is being reincarnated. If by empty brain you mean a brain with no brainwaves, that brain has no consciousness at all. So there's no such thing as conscious beings with empty brains.

But even if there were, I would have had an empty brain, and you too, but we're not reincarnations of each other. So what do these hypothetical empty brains who are incarnations of each other have in common that your and my brain don't?

 

[Tyooby]

Perhaps someday lie detecting may become sufficiently accurate so that this will not be a problem and scientists will be in a much better position to validate ESP.

A sufficiently accurate lie detector couldn't prove ESP, it could only prove that some people believe they have ESP, which proves nothing.

 

[BobG]

I'm still unsure what exactly is being reincarnated. If by empty brain you mean a brain with no brainwaves, that brain has no consciousness at all. So there's no such thing as conscious beings with empty brains.

I mean a brain that has not had the opportunity to take in any information from the outside world. The outside world that I am talking about is not external to the womb but external to the body.

I would have had an empty brain, and you too, but we're not reincarnations of each other. So what do these hypothetical empty brains who are incarnations of each other have in common that your and my brain don't?

Nothing if they are not incarnations of either your brain or my brain. However, if they are, they have the same consciousness in common with each other.

 

[BobG]

A sufficiently accurate lie detector couldn't prove ESP, it could only prove that some people believe they have ESP, which proves nothing.

That is exactly what I meant and that would weed out the fraud making it much easier for the scientists who are doing the testing.

Bob

 

[shuttlt]

Bob,

Could you explain how you reasoned your way to this view of reincarnation. Given that you spent years thinking about it, I'm sure you can flesh it out a little.

People choose religions for all sorts of mindless reasons, in most cases because they were raised and brainwashed in it. Others choose a religion because they marry somebody of that faith.

On the whole they offer more reasons than you, even if it's just a feeling of being part of something.

I've thought about reincarnation and many other things for years and it is my conclusion that it is possible to be reincarnated although it is a very rare event.

Could you flesh out how you arrived at this conclusion about reincarnation?

 

[shuttlt]

That is exactly what I meant and that would weed out the fraud making it much easier for the scientists who are doing the testing.

Bob

Many people who claim to have ESP, dowsers in particular, appear to be sincere, but deluded.

Also, what happens if ESP/spirit guides/angels throw off lie detectors? That way you could have a lie detector that tests 100% in all other fields, but when it comes to asking people this question it keeps claiming people are lying. Given a hypothetical 100% accurate lie detector, I bet this issue would come up.

 

[Tyooby]

Nothing if they are not incarnations of either your brain or my brain. However, if they are, they have the same consciousness in common with each other.

As far as I know, there can be no consciousness without brain activity, or a brain, for that matter. So if two brains share the same consciousness, that would have to mean the brains are completely identical. But I guess your definition of consciousness is a different one than the usual.

 

[BobG]

Bob,


Could you flesh out how you arrived at this conclusion about reincarnation?

Not more than I have already!

 

[BobG]

But I guess your definition of consciousness is a different one than the usual.

Perhaps!

 

[shuttlt]

Not more than I have already!

So, what were you thinking about for the years you were thinking about this? Were you meditating or something?

 

[BobG]

Many people who claim to have ESP, dowsers in particular, appear to be sincere, but deluded.

I am not talking about these people. I am talking about the liars!

Also, what happens if ESP/spirit guides/angels throw off lie detectors? That way you could have a lie detector that tests 100% in all other fields, but when it comes to asking people this question it keeps claiming people are lying. Given a hypothetical 100% accurate lie detector, I bet this issue would come up.

This wouldn't happen because, in my opinion, spirits and angels do not exist.

 

[shuttlt]

This wouldn't happen because, in my opinion, spirits and angels do not exist.

How can that be if they keep throwing off the lie detector?

 

[BobG]

So, what were you thinking about for the years you were thinking about this? Were you meditating or something?

I've been thinking about everything my whole life and I am not into meditation.

I do believe in meditation but let's not go there!

Bob