Evidence for why we know the New Testament writers told the truth.

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DOC said:
Matthew 28: 18 - 19

And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth.
Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost.


After the Resurrection Jesus stated "All" power is given unto me in heaven and in earth. This implies He didn't have all power before the Resurrection in his humanly pre-resurrection state. Since he now had all power in his post resurrection state, he had the power to know the population of the earth.

You will notice he said go and teach "all" nations, he didn't say go and teach the nations we know of. If the disciples got to India for example surely some people in India would know of China and Indonesia. Then since Christ said to go to all nations, they would have to go to China (if they had mountain guides) and Indonesia (if they could get a ship). If they got to China then surely some Chinese knew of Korea and Japan. And surely some people in Indonesia knew of Australia and so on and so on with the Islands of the Sea.

There is no way all of this could have been done (reaching all the people in those nations) in 30 years. As I said earlier, there are millions of people in our present world who have never even heard the word Jesus. So there is still a lot of time left before everyone will get a chance to hear the gospel and make a decision. But with cable and Satellite TV and the growth of Christianity in Asia and other places it will be possible for the gospel to reach every human some day.
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So... if the Bible is right... then it proves the Bible to be right.

Freaking useful, indeed.
 
DOC said:
Yes, the famous archaeologist Sir William Mitchell Ramsay die say that about the Gospel writer Luke.
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No. He did not, as you've corrected on several occasions:
“The more I have studied the narrative of the Acts, and the more I have learned year after year about Graeco-Roman society and thoughts and fashions, and organization in those provinces, the more I admire and the better I understand. I set out to look for truth on the borderland where Greece and Asia meet, and found it here [in the Book of Acts—KB]. You may press the words of Luke in a degree beyond any other historian’s, and they stand the keenest scrutiny and the hardest treatment, provided always that the critic knows the subject and does not go beyond the limits of science and of justice.”
(1915, p. 89)
Ramsay, William (1915), The Bearing of Recent Discovery on the Trustworthiness of the New Testament (Grand Rapids, MI: Baker, 1975 reprint).
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So where is this "great" part again? Did you notice the "does not go beyond the limits of science and of justice" part again?
 
paximperium said:
No. He did not, as you've corrected on several occasions:
So where is this "great" part again? Did you notice the "does not go beyond the limits of science and of justice" part again?
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That's one quote, there are others. When I get the time I'll look them up. But even your quote praises Luke's ability as a historian.

ETA

And sources say Ramsay did convert to Christianity.
 
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paximperium said:
No. He did not, as you've corrected on several occasions:
So where is this "great" part again? Did you notice the "does not go beyond the limits of science and of justice" part again?
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From the article on archaeologist Sir William Mitchell Ramsay on Conservapedia:

"Mitchell was raised as an atheist and as an archaeologist was convinced that the Bible was fraudulent. "He had spent years deliberately preparing himself for the announced task of heading an exploration expedition into Asia Minor and Palestine where he would [find] the evidence that the book was the product of ambitious monks, and not the book from heaven it claimed to be. He regarded the weakest spot in the whole New Testament to be the story of Paul's travels. These had never been thoroughly investigated by one on the spot. Equipped as no other man had been, he went to the home of the Bible. Here he spent fifteen years digging. Then in 1896 he published a large volume, Saint Paul, the Traveler and the Roman Citizen."[1]

Ramsay was struck by the accuracy of the book of Acts. In his quest to refute the Bible, he discovered many facts which confirmed its accuracy. He concluded that Luke’s account of the events and setting recorded in the narrative were exact even in the smallest detail.[2] Of Luke, he wrote: Luke is a historian of the first rank; not merely are his statements of fact trustworthy...this author should be placed along with the very greatest historians.[3]"

http://www.conservapedia.com/William_Mitchell_Ramsay
 
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Can you get us the original quote?

After the dust-up with Lenski, I consider conservapedia to have about the same level of credibility as Ann Coulter: if they mentioned the sky being blue, I would have to stop reading and check for myself.
 
Wow...DOC really will quote just about anything that backs up his POV.

Conservapedia...Wow. I mean, wow.
 
DOC said:
The Bible says God is Just and Right.

Deu 32:4 ...his work [is] perfect: for all his ways [are] judgment: a God of truth and without iniquity, just and right [is] he.

Christians have faith that God will do the Just and Right thing regarding those who never heard the word while on earth.
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The bible also says that god creates evil and that beating slaves to death is ok, as long as they don't die within 2-3 days. So, Just and right I guess are relative.
 
We also have the dominican Priest, Father J. Murphy-O'Conner who called Luke's Census story "complete nonsense". Not something one would expect from a "great historian."
 
joobz said:
We also have the dominican Priest, Father J. Murphy-O'Conner who called Luke's Census story "complete nonsense". Not something one would expect from a "great historian."
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I've yet to figure out why DOC keeps using Sir William Ramsay, no doubt a great archeologist for his time but one who does not have over 100years of modern Biblical, archeological or scientific research available to him.

It's like claiming that Newton, one of the greatest scientists of all time, was an alchemist therefore alchemy must be true. :rolleyes:
 
paximperium said:
I've yet to figure out why DOC keeps using Sir William Ramsay, no doubt a great archeologist for his time but one who does not have over 100years of modern Biblical, archeological or scientific research available to him.

It's like claiming that Newton, one of the greatest scientists of all time, was an alchemist therefore alchemy must be true. :rolleyes:
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And he must still quote mine to even use Sir Ramsay's quote.


I think it's funny that he's completely dropped the "treat slaves like Children line"
 
joobz said:
We also have the dominican Priest, Father J. Murphy-O'Conner who called Luke's Census story "complete nonsense". Not something one would expect from a "great historian."
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Sir William Ramsay didn't think it was nonsense when he discovered there was a Roman census every 14 years beginning with Emperor Augustus. When you give a source I'll give one.
 
Originally Posted by DOC


From the article on archaeologist Sir William Mitchell Ramsay on Conservapedia:



Cactus Wren said:
:dl:
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Phase Inverter said:
Apparently this is indeed a direct quote from Ramsay:

"this author should be placed along with the very greatest of historians.”

Ramsay, William. The Bearing of Recent Discovery on the Trustworthiness of the New Testament. Grand Rapids: Baker, 1953. p. 222.
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Looks like Conservapedia was right.
 
DOC said:
Matthew 28: 18 - 19

And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth.
Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost.


After the Resurrection Jesus stated "All" power is given unto me in heaven and in earth. This implies He didn't have all power before the Resurrection in his humanly pre-resurrection state. Since he now had all power in his post resurrection state, he had the power to know the population of the earth.

You will notice he said go and teach "all" nations, he didn't say go and teach the nations we know of. If the disciples got to India for example surely some people in India would know of China and Indonesia. Then since Christ said to go to all nations, they would have to go to China (if they had mountain guides) and Indonesia (if they could get a ship). If they got to China then surely some Chinese knew of Korea and Japan. And surely some people in Indonesia knew of Australia and so on and so on with the Islands of the Sea.

There is no way all of this could have been done (reaching all the people in those nations) in 30 years. As I said earlier, there are millions of people in our present world who have never even heard the word Jesus. So there is still a lot of time left before everyone will get a chance to hear the gospel and make a decision. But with cable and Satellite TV and the growth of Christianity in Asia and other places it will be possible for the gospel to reach every human some day.
Click to expand...

What about other worlds? There surely are other planets which must be inhabited by aliens completely different to homo sapiens.
Has your christ been sacrificed on all the other possible worlds?
If so, he could be hanging from some alien cross right at this very moment.
Perhaps in the shape of a blob. :D
 
paximperium said:
I've yet to figure out why DOC keeps using Sir William Ramsay, no doubt a great archeologist for his time but one who does not have over 100years of modern Biblical, archeological or scientific research available to him.

It's like claiming that Newton, one of the greatest scientists of all time, was an alchemist therefore alchemy must be true. :rolleyes:
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This is an empty post unless you present at least 3 significant modern findings that has overturned anything discovered by Ramsay.
 
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amb said:
What about other worlds? There surely are other planets which must be inhabited by aliens completely different to homo sapiens.
Has your christ been sacrificed on all the other possible worlds?
If so, he could be hanging from some alien cross right at this very moment.
Perhaps in the shape of a blob. :D
Click to expand...

Those alien worlds (if they exist) might be smart enough not to disobey God and His Laws -- Thus a price would not have to be paid for redemption.

Somewhere down the road a price always has to be paid for sin unless sincere forgiveness is asked for. God is not loosey goosey about sin -- he takes it seriously. If He didn't the world would be chaos.
 
DOC said:
This is an empty post unless you present at least 3 significant modern findings that has overturned anything discovered by Ramsay.
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This is an empty post unless you present at least 3 significant modern findings that provide evidence for why we know the New Testament writers told the truth.
 
DOC said:
Those alien worlds (if they exist) might be smart enough not to disobey God and His Laws -- Thus a price would not have to be paid for redemption.

Somewhere down the road a price always has to be paid for sin unless sincere forgiveness is asked for. God is not loosey goosey about sin -- he takes it seriously. If He didn't the world would be chaos.
Click to expand...
Is that the best you can do? What about gods power? Isn't he able to see the future as well as the past/ A timeless being? Surely such a being would see the faults in the creation and rectify them before he created.
 
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