Historical Serial Killer: Jack The Ripper

[Segnosaur]

didn't the "Juws (Jews) who are not without guilt" do it?


IIRC that line was found at one of the killings.

Yes, there was graffiti found at one of the killings (which was erased by the police before it could be photographed or examined in more detail... I guess they didn't want this to touch off any sort of race war.)

The problem is, there is no evidence that that line had anything to do with the killings. There is a chance that it was just co-incidental; something someone had scrawled on the wall long before the murders, by someone who wasn't involved in the killings at all.

 

[Ian Osborne]

Yes, there was graffiti found at one of the killings (which was erased by the police before it could be photographed or examined in more detail... I guess they didn't want this to touch off any sort of race war.)

The problem is, there is no evidence that that line had anything to do with the killings. There is a chance that it was just co-incidental; something someone had scrawled on the wall long before the murders, by someone who wasn't involved in the killings at all.

IIRC, the chalked graffiti read, 'The jues are the men that won't be blamed for nothing', and it was faded through time, and smudged by people rubbing against it when they passed. Not photographing it was probably a mistake, but we can be pretty sure it predated the killing.

 

[Segnosaur]

There is a book by famed criminal profiler John Douglas called "The Cases that Haunt Us". In the book, Douglas describes some of the more famous historical cases (Jack the Ripper, Lizzie Borden, Lindberg Kidnapping, JonBonet Ramsey) and applies criminal profiling techniques to 'solve' the case (either eliminating some suspects, or pointing out who COULD be the killer, etc.)

In the section on Jack the Ripper, he points out that the killer likely would have been a loner, probably uneducated; the increasing violence and desecration of the bodies showed somone who was loosing touch with reality and would not have been able to 'fit' into society.

Therefore, you can probably eliminate Druitt (a lawyer, even if a 'failed' one), Stephenson (doctor), Prince Albert (royalty), Stephen (a royal tutor), Cream (another doctor) and Maybrick (a merchant). All of these people would have required a certain amount of ability to interact with others, something that Jack the Ripper wouldn't have had.

That leaves Klosowski. However, the fact that Klosowski had been married in the past also casts doubt on him as the killer, since even being married doesn't fit the 'loner' profile.

One of the problems is that many of the people in the Whitechapel area where the murders occured were immigrants, and often had their names changed and/or misspelled. This sometimes makes tracking suspects a little difficult. Klosowski may not have been the murderer, but it may have been someone with a similar name.

John Douglas suggested it could be someone named Aaron Kosminski, a polish immigrant that exhibited a hatred for women, who ended up committed to an asylum shortly after the murders... (Douglas says it was likely Kosminski or someone similar to him).

 

[Damien Evans]

firmly in the none of the above for killer camp.

 

[Big Les]

IIRC, the chalked graffiti read, 'The jues are the men that won't be blamed for nothing', and it was faded through time, and smudged by people rubbing against it when they passed. Not photographing it was probably a mistake, but we can be pretty sure it predated the killing.

Two versions of the graffito exist, the one that makes more sense being this one;

http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:The_Juwes_are_the_men_that_Will_not_be_Blamed_for_nothing.JPG

My feeling is also that it was already there, and like many aspects of the phenomenon, has had far too much time and effort devoted to it. The only thing connecting it with the killer is the piece of bloody apron supposedly dropped next to it by him as he left the scene.

 

[I Ratant]

The killings were unusual, sure, but violence against prostitutes was common at the time.
...

.
Still is.
LAPD is looking for one of those freaks who has been killing prostitutes for the past 20 years.
So far he's managed to not get arrested and have his DNA checked against that found on his victims.

 

[blue sock monkey]

Two versions of the graffito exist, the one that makes more sense being this one;

http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:The_Juwes_are_the_men_that_Will_not_be_Blamed_for_nothing.JPG

My feeling is also that it was already there, and like many aspects of the phenomenon, has had far too much time and effort devoted to it. The only thing connecting it with the killer is the piece of bloody apron supposedly dropped next to it by him as he left the scene.

IIRC, the graffiti and apron fragment were not at the scene of the killing, but several blocks away. That was on the night of the "double event", yes?

 

[Big Les]

That's the one. It's less than 400 yards from Eddowes murder site as the crow flies - less than 500 if you follow the (modern) streets.

 

[dudalb]

still, we can't rule out the sailor just because of his extra portions

I have the Patricia Cornwell book, never got to reading it. I like her other books, this one is not a novel, it is documentation on her investigation into the murders.

The problem is that she tried to pass off her theory as original, when it has been around for years.and she got ripped (no pun intended) to pieces by the Ripperlogists for it.

 

[dudalb]

That's the one. It's less than 400 yards from Eddowes murder site as the crow flies - less than 500 if you follow the (modern) streets.

The Ripper walking tour..particularly if you have Rumbold...gives you a excellent sense of the distances involved.

 

[Big Les]

Rumbelow? To be honest I'd only really want to do that with him, or someone like him - if Edinburgh is any parallel, I can imagine there are some pretty poor tours (ghosts, woo, dubious facts etc).

 

[Tsukasa Buddha]

There is a book by famed criminal profiler John Douglas called "The Cases that Haunt Us". In the book, Douglas describes some of the more famous historical cases (Jack the Ripper, Lizzie Borden, Lindberg Kidnapping, JonBonet Ramsey) and applies criminal profiling techniques to 'solve' the case (either eliminating some suspects, or pointing out who COULD be the killer, etc.)

In the section on Jack the Ripper, he points out that the killer likely would have been a loner, probably uneducated; the increasing violence and desecration of the bodies showed somone who was loosing touch with reality and would not have been able to 'fit' into society.

I call BS. Stupid criminal profilers *shakes fist*.

Sure, you could say those "likely" or "probably" things, but you can't rule people in or out.

 

[Segnosaur]

There is a book by famed criminal profiler John Douglas called "The Cases that Haunt Us". In the book, Douglas describes some of the more famous historical cases (Jack the Ripper, Lizzie Borden, Lindberg Kidnapping, JonBonet Ramsey) and applies criminal profiling techniques to 'solve' the case (either eliminating some suspects, or pointing out who COULD be the killer, etc.)

In the section on Jack the Ripper, he points out that the killer likely would have been a loner, probably uneducated; the increasing violence and desecration of the bodies showed somone who was loosing touch with reality and would not have been able to 'fit' into society.

I call BS. Stupid criminal profilers *shakes fist*.

Sure, you could say those "likely" or "probably" things, but you can't rule people in or out.

If you're going to argue that criminal profiling isn't an exact science, I'd agree with you. (Heck, there was even an article in Skeptic magazine about a year ago which suggested it had significant flaws.)

However, crime investigators CAN use it to focus an investigation. If 90% of all criminals featured a certain trait, its reasonable to assume that in later cases criminals will have a good chance at exhibiting that same trait, and it makes sense (if no other information is available) to rule out people who DON'T have that particular trait.

Yes, there MAY BE cases where a 'disorganized', over-the-top killer can later turn around and have normal interactions with others, however, if most PREVIOUS disorganized killers with similar signatures were found to be anti-social, we can assume that MOST future serial killers will similarly be anti-social.

 

[desertgal]

The real Mystery is why he did it.

Why do any of them do it? Is that really much of a mystery? We know many serial killers get addicted to the rush of omnipotence that the act of killing provides them. It's likely the Ripper was the same breed.

I also strongly recommend this "Jack The Ripper Walk" next time your are in London.
http://www.walks.com/Homepage/Jack_t...r/default.aspx

There are lots of imitatiors but this one is the best..particularly if Donald Rumbold is giving it.

What is nice is they time the evening walks so that when you get out of the modern construction area (the area where the first two murders occured was leveled during the Blitz and is all modern consturction) into the older section where the original buildings are still standing,darkness is starting to fall. A lot of fun.

We did this when we were in London two years ago. I loved it.

 

[dudalb]

Rumbelow? To be honest I'd only really want to do that with him, or someone like him - if Edinburgh is any parallel, I can imagine there are some pretty poor tours (ghosts, woo, dubious facts etc).

Agreed.
But My Wife and I have been on several tours with London Walks, and have never been disappointed.
RUmbelow no longers conducts the walks every night,but all the tour guides with London Walks who give the Ripper walk are trained by RUmbelow.

 

[Marduk]

Francis Tumblety
Known for his hatred of women
wife had worked as a prostitute whilst married to him
anatomical knowledge
muders ceased when he flew
uses of aliases
known to police at time as a bad character
Scotland Yard contacted New York Police for a copy of his handwriting just after the Eddowes death, obviously suspecting him.
Pursued to New York after jumping bail following a misdemeanour
Unusually high bail for a misdemeanour
rich enough to finance his time in the East End
prior form in the USA/Canada (procuring an illegal abortion, manslaughter of a patient)
The rings in his inventory
collected body parts in jars to show to guests
peddled porn as a child
matches most descriptions (and looked younger than his years)
gross indecency charge shows his deviancy
letters to Henry Hall Caine shows his changeable temper
Littlechild letter
on the streets at the time of Kelly's death
had lodings in Liverpool (cf Liverpool letters, probably the only real letters. Arguable)

Tumblety was known to the police, was probably the infamous Batty Street lodger and was pursued to America. There was also a "large dossier on him at Scotland Yard" according to Littlechild, which has unfortunately been lost.



has anyone here read the tumblety evidence and then dismissed it, if so on what grounds ?

 

[Segnosaur]

Francis Tumblety
Known for his hatred of women

Well, that's certainly a start...

However, he was homosexual, and for better or worse, their murders USUALLY are restricted to same-sex killings. (At least in the case of serial killers)

http://www.csicop.org/si/2005-03/strange-world.html

wife had worked as a prostitute whilst married to him

Well, if you believe in criminal profiling, this might actually be a reason to exclude him (or at least make it less likely to consider him a suspect).

While having a wife working as a prostitute might cause anger issues, the fact that he was married at all (as well as the fact that he was smart enough to pose as a 'doctor') shows that he was social enough to appear 'normal'.

If such a person were a serial killer, their crimes would be a lot better organized, possibly a lot 'cleaner'.

anatomical knowledge

Many have assumed that Jack the Ripper had some sort of medical knowledge (either as a doctor, or perhaps a butcher). However, its possible that the opposite is true; much of the killer's desecration (especially in the later crimes) was due to a morbid 'curiosity' about the body.

muders ceased when he flew
known to police at time as a bad character

These points apply to many of the suspects in the Ripper case.

 

[Marduk]

Well, that's certainly a start...

However, he was homosexual, and for better or worse, their murders USUALLY are restricted to same-sex killings. (At least in the case of serial killers).

thats baloney, I don't know who made that up, but theres no truth in it at all.
Q. did Henry Lee Lucas the most prolific serial killer in U.S. history who was also a homosexual only kill men ?



and I don't see as how your claim one minute that he was a homosexual and so couldn't have done it and in the next breath he was married to a hooker so couldnt have done it makes any sense
you want to have your ripper cake and eat it eh


Tumblety had a collection of Uterus's, that in itself would be enough to bring him to the attention of any modern police investigation, how many of the other suspects had their own fallen woman anatomical collection, or even how many people present in london at the time had their own uterus collection. I am reminded of south park where the police find a suspect in their serial killer who takes right hands as a trophy who has a collection of apparently left hands and discount him as a suspect

If such a person were a serial killer, their crimes would be a lot better organized, possibly a lot 'cleaner'.

He got clean away every time and left no incriminating evidence of his presence at the scene, that is organised

 

[desertgal]

He got clean away every time and left no incriminating evidence of his presence at the scene, that is organised

That we know of. If the investigations were bungled, if evidence was overlooked, if...if...if...there could have been significant evidence left behind at each scene, and it was missed.

But, I'll agree that serial killers aren't always so organized...Jeffrey Dahmer, for example. David Berkowitz. Ted Bundy. Gary Ridgway. The list goes on...

 

[Vic Vega]

IIRC, the chalked graffiti read, 'The jues are the men that won't be blamed for nothing', and it was faded through time, and smudged by people rubbing against it when they passed. Not photographing it was probably a mistake, but we can be pretty sure it predated the killing.

The police erased the graffiti left in Goulston Street. They were afraid that it would cause anti-semitic riots.

I've read some convincing arguments over the years for a few suspects, but I am in the camp that thinks the real killer is probably not on any list and has long been lost to history.