Evidence for why we know the New Testament writers told the truth.

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DOC said:
From the article Why Did They Kill Jesus?
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Why did they kill Jesus?

Well, admitting that the whole story is not fictional, and that's a definite possibility, if not the most likely one, in my opinion, it seems like the Roman were very nervous.
All these Israelis were very restless, you see, and they took they weird crazy belief very, very seriously, killing each other on matter of dogmas in a way that was totally alien to Romans. And they had the example of the admirable Greek civilization to rely to as less than a hundred years prior the Seleucid dynasty had been overthrown by some barbarous outlaws. The Romans certainly were wary about these barbarous fanatics.

So, when came the time of Passover, the highest time of Religious exaltation, a time that celebrated the emancipation from under the rule of yet another mighty, the Romans were particularly vigilante.
And when came this crazy itinerant preacher, beating the crowds into Religious frenzy, disturbing the peace of the temples, calling for the end of the world... they were not going to let the situation go out of end.
They arrested him and executed him and set him up as an example before things got too crazy.

And that's probably why Jesus died.
 
DOC said:
From the article Why Did They Kill Jesus?
Mark 15:1-15
April 5, 2009 – ©Rev. Dr. Linnea E. Carnes

"In John 12:19 it says that some Pharisees said to one another, “You see, you can do nothing. Look, the world has gone after him!” They wanted Jesus killed because of envy. But there was another reason.

Several times in the gospels we read that the chief priest, the teachers of the law and the elders looked for a way to arrest Jesus … but they were afraid of the crowd. [Mk.12:12]. They wanted to kill him, but they were afraid because the crowd loved him. [Mk.11:18].

Two days before the Passover, “the chief priests and the teachers of the law were looking for some sly way to arrest Jesus and kill him.” [Mk.14:1-2]. Jesus spoke and acted with great authority and power and were afraid of him."
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Oh look. Using the bible to prove the bible. How original. :rolleyes:

I can understand why the Romans might have wanted him executed, but there is nothing in the law that prohibits anything Jesus did or said, so your assertion that the religious leaders had him killed is unfounded.
 
Simon39759 said:
Why did they kill Jesus?

Well, admitting that the whole story is not fictional, and that's a definite possibility, if not the most likely one, in my opinion, it seems like the Roman were very nervous.
All these Israelis were very restless, you see, and they took they weird crazy belief very, very seriously, killing each other on matter of dogmas in a way that was totally alien to Romans. And they had the example of the admirable Greek civilization to rely to as less than a hundred years prior the Seleucid dynasty had been overthrown by some barbarous outlaws. The Romans certainly were wary about these barbarous fanatics.

So, when came the time of Passover, the highest time of Religious exaltation, a time that celebrated the emancipation from under the rule of yet another mighty, the Romans were particularly vigilante.
And when came this crazy itinerant preacher, beating the crowds into Religious frenzy, disturbing the peace of the temples, calling for the end of the world... they were not going to let the situation go out of end.
They arrested him and executed him and set him up as an example before things got too crazy.

And that's probably why Jesus died.
Click to expand...

Right. If this Jesus existed at all. :p
 
Hokulele said:
I can understand why the Romans might have wanted him executed, but there is nothing in the law that prohibits anything Jesus did or said, so your assertion that the religious leaders had him killed is unfounded.
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The multitude of other Apocaliptic Religions and Messiahs wannabees during that time kinda proves this silly claim wrong.
 
The Romans needed little urging to execute someone. Trouble makers were dispatched ASAP before they stirred up any trouble. If a raving lunatic went about preaching a kingdom of god, caused a near riot in the temple, and if he received a little notice from the general population as this fool did, of course the Romans had little choice but to get rid of him. It was after this execution that his stunned followers started the B/S about a resurrection.
 
amb said:
The Romans needed little urging to execute someone. Trouble makers were dispatched ASAP before they stirred up any trouble. If a raving lunatic went about preaching a kingdom of god, caused a near riot in the temple, and if he received a little notice from the general population as this fool did, of course the Romans had little choice but to get rid of him. It was after this execution that his stunned followers started the B/S about a resurrection.
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Well, to quote a famous philosopher:):

amb said:
Right. If this Jesus existed at all. :p
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amb said:
The Romans needed little urging to execute someone. Trouble makers were dispatched ASAP before they stirred up any trouble. If a raving lunatic went about preaching a kingdom of god, caused a near riot in the temple, and if he received a little notice from the general population as this fool did, of course the Romans had little choice but to get rid of him. It was after this execution that his stunned followers started the B/S about a resurrection.
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Indeed, furthermore, there are quite a few mentions of Jesus being resurrected 'in the spirit', and these seem to be the earliest texts available.
Seems to me that the first Christians believed that Jesus had been vindicated in the spiritual realm and that the next generation dropped that later clause in favour of a more satisfying physical resurrection that made Jesus' final victory more obvious.
 
Simon39759 said:
Indeed, furthermore, there are quite a few mentions of Jesus being resurrected 'in the spirit', and these seem to be the earliest texts available.
Seems to me that the first Christians believed that Jesus had been vindicated in the spiritual realm and that the next generation dropped that later clause in favour of a more satisfying physical resurrection that made Jesus' final victory more obvious.
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I wonder if they might not have had a "Jesus" running around the area post-execution. What I mean is that there was hardly a Fox News plastering Jesus' face all over the airwaves, and only a limited number of people who actually knew Jesus and what he looked like. It wouldn't be too hard for a successor, leading the religious sect, to claim to be the ressurected Christ, even if he didn't mean it literally. The superstitious people of the time, who compromised the majority in a big way, wouldn't need too much pushing to come to the conclusion that this Jesus character really had risen from the dead.
 
That's possible, I suppose, or one might believe in the 'fainting Jesus' theory, or the idea that he had a twin brother... I am of the impression that none of this is warranted as the power of people to rationalize an excuse, rather than admit they had sacrified years of their life to a failed religious experiment, is pretty much unlimited; (cue the fact that both Jim Jones or the Heaven's gate still has active followers today).
 
amb said:
The Romans needed little urging to execute someone. Trouble makers were dispatched ASAP before they stirred up any trouble.
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So then I assume you agree anyone who started preaching publicly about ending the deeply ingrained system of slavery would have quickly been executed as a trouble maker.
 
DOC said:
So then I assume you agree anyone who started preaching publicly about ending the deeply ingrained system of slavery would have quickly been executed as a trouble maker.
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According to you, he was already a target. Why would he be so afraid to argue against slavery, if he thought it was immoral?

Maybe because he was too busy condoning the beating of children?
 
DOC said:
So then I assume you agree anyone who started preaching publicly about ending the deeply ingrained system of slavery would have quickly been executed as a trouble maker.
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So then I assume you agree anyone who started preaching publicly about ending the deeply ingrained system of slavery would have quickly been executed as a trouble maker even when this person claims to be supported by the power of god or is a god incarnate?


 
joobz said:
According to you, he was already a target. Why would he be so afraid to argue against slavery, if he thought it was immoral?

Maybe because he was too busy condoning the beating of children?
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Jesus was killed anyway, so his silence against slavery proved nothing and achieved nothing.
 
DOC said:
Actually it could be argued it was a stroke of genius to handle it the way the Christians did. The most important thing in war is to survive to fight another day. If Jesus and other Christians came out loudly and aggressively against the deeply entrenched System of slavery in the Roman Empire they all could have been killed immediately as revolutionaries against the Roman Empire and Christianity would have been stopped dead in its tracks. Yes, in a perfect world slavery would have been outlawed immediately. But it is naive to think that could of happened.
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So those are the only alternatives: to "come out loudly and aggressively against the deeply entrenched system", trying to overthrow it completely, or to support it. I see. It was absolutely impossible for him to say, "I tell you, my followers, YOU are not to own slaves, because it is wrong. Let those who don't know better do as they will, but YOU now know better, so YOU are not to buy or sell or own human beings."

paximperium said:
DOC said:
The OT also has laws on when to free a slave and how to treat slaves as your own children.
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So the Bible had instructions on how to enslave, keep, punish, treat and free slaves. What a moral manual you have there.
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It even has a handy little instruction on how to hold onto a slave when it's legally time to free him. (Hold his wife and children hostage -- Exodus 21:2-6.)
 
Simon39759 said:
That's possible, I suppose, or one might believe in the 'fainting Jesus' theory, or the idea that he had a twin brother... I am of the impression that none of this is warranted as the power of people to rationalize an excuse, rather than admit they had sacrified years of their life to a failed religious experiment, is pretty much unlimited; (cue the fact that both Jim Jones or the Heaven's gate still has active followers today).
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Wait, how did Jesus fail as a religious experiment? Or did I read what you're saying incorrectly?
 
Well; he arrived and preached his own version of Judaism, expecting the world to end any time soon.

He got arrested; killed; by and large, the Jews rejected his message and Hod his time-table.

At this point, where the first Christian standed, this was a failure on par with Jim Jones or David Koresh.
Hence the re-invention of Jesus into the Christ and his message of a new Judaism into a whole new Religion. A religion that was to be quite successful.
 
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