Israel bans use of word "Nakba" in textbooks

[Marc39]

Helloooooho? Any[mark]body out there?

Helloooooo? Who caused the so-called nakba?

 

[Oliver]

Who caused the so-called nakba?

Who caused the Holocaust? A bunch of Judism-loving religious nuts who rather loved to be exterminated than giving up their religious stance for the sake of peace in the religious/political environement they lived in?

Let me guess, my question is more stupid than yours, right?

 

[Marc39]

Who caused the Holocaust? A bunch of Judism-loving religious nuts who rather loved to be exterminated than giving up their religious stance for the sake of peace in the religious/political environement they lived in?

Let me guess, my question is more stupid than yours, right?

I asked you a direct question: Who caused the so-called nakba?

 

[FireGarden]

Good. The world is already filled with an overabundance of needless disputation.

Any chance you will back up the claim on the point which is disputed?

Those with any depth of knowledge of Benny Morris beyond a mere newspaper interview with him are well aware of Benny's tactic of hedging on issues, taking both sides of an argument and, often, contradicting himself in the same sentence. Cleverly, by doing so, he can never be accused of being wrong.

Strange. I would have thought that saying contradictory things would make it easier for someone to say he was wrong -- because he would have to be wrong. Why don't you quote some of those sentences were he contradicts himself?

He has stated in the Haaretz interview, which is certainly not particularly important, despite your assertions to the contrary, there was no Israeli state policy of Arab expulsion. Surmising an alleged "atmosphere" of transfer does not constitute history.

He gives the evidence upon which he bases his view that there was an "atmosphere" of transfer. Do you deny that transfer orders were signed by Moshe Carmel and Yitzhak Rabin? Do you deny that these orders were signed shortly after visits from Ben-Gurion? Do you deny that Rabin wrote in his memoirs:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1948_Palestinian_exodus

What would they do with the 50,000 civilians in the two cities … Not even Ben-Gurion could offer a solution, and during the discussion at operation headquarters, he remained silent, as was his habit in such situations. Clearly, we could not leave [Lydda's] hostile and armed populace in our rear, where it could endanger the supply route [to the troops who were] advancing eastward. … Allon repeated the question: What is to be done with the population? Ben-Gurion waved his hand in a gesture that said: Drive them out! … 'Driving out' is a term with a harsh ring … Psychologically, this was one of the most difficult actions we undertook. The population of [Lydda] did not leave willingly. There was no way of avoiding the use of force and warning shots in order to make the inhabitants march the 10 to 15 miles to the point where they met up with the legion. (Soldier of Peace, p. 140–141)

 

[FireGarden]

The idea that Israel would negotiate and sign a land-for-peace deal with Islamist Hamas....is insane and insulting to all Israelis.

It is not insane or insulting. It is exactly what Israel should do.

 

[Thunder]

It is not insane or insulting. It is exactly what Israel should do.

either way..it simply did not happen. Israel's withdrawal was UNILATERAL. No agreement of land in exchange for peace was made with Hamas. Any suggestion of such is a pathetic lie.

 

[Oliver]

I asked you a direct question: Who caused the so-called nakba?

I asked first. But if you're willing to answer my questions, here is mine: The Nakba, according to those who coined the term, was caused by Pro-Jewish and Jewish people who aimed at establishing Israel no matter what opposition they met. Actually their stance is that Israel gave a damn about the Arab's, and given the topic at hand - and your stance as well, that's obvious. You still live the spirit of ignorance the same way the Nazis did.

 

[Marc39]

Any chance you will back up the claim on the point which is disputed?

The organization representing Jews expelled from Arab countries has the details on the value of property left behind. I am not in possession of those deeds.

Strange. I would have thought that saying contradictory things would make it easier for someone to say he was wrong -- because he would have to be wrong. Why don't you quote some of those sentences were he contradicts himself?

It's known as hedging.

He gives the evidence upon which he bases his view that there was an "atmosphere" of transfer. Do you deny that transfer orders were signed by Moshe Carmel and Yitzhak Rabin? Do you deny that these orders were signed shortly after visits from Ben-Gurion? Do you deny that Rabin wrote in his memoirs:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1948_Palestinian_exodus

There is no tangible evidence of any Israeli gov't policy of expulsion. Historians, Morris and many others, have combed through millions of pages of archives in hot pursuit of such a plan. Nothing has been uncovered. Such a plan did not exist. You can argue opinion, you cannot argue the facts.

 

[Marc39]

I asked first. But if you're willing to answer my questions, here is mine: The Nakba, according to those who coined the term, was caused by Pro-Jewish and Jewish people who aimed at establishing Israel no matter what opposition they met. Actually their stance is that Israel gave a damn about the Arab's, and given the topic at hand - and your stance as well, that's obvious. You still live the spirit of ignorance the same way the Nazis did.

So, pretty much like everyone else in this thread, you protest vehemently against possible Israeli actions pertaining to the so-called nakba, however, when asked the simple question who caused the so-called nakba, answers are not so easily elicited. Why do you suppose this is?

 

[Marc39]

Are you okay with that? And in contrast: Is Nakba denial a crime in Israel?
What about my other posts, inconvenient responses for your agenda, eh?

In what ways is the so-called nakba equal to the Holocaust?

 

[DC]

amazing, it is like Marc comes from another planet.
very amuzing hostory revisionism.

 

[Marc39]

very amuzing hostory revisionism.

Explain.

 

[DC]

Explain.

no keep on entertaining me pls. you are funny, in a disgusting way, but still a funny troll. you are really funny for a so called Zionist.

 

[Marc39]

amazing, it is like Marc comes from another planet.
very amuzing hostory revisionism.

Please share with us the unrevised history of the so-called nakba and cite for us examples of how the creation of Israel has been a "nakba"--a catastrophe--for Arabs.

 

[Marc39]

no keep on entertaining me pls. you are funny, in a disgusting way, but still a funny troll. you are really funny for a so called Zionist.

So, yet another individual shocked--SHOCKED--some Israelis are opposed to the use of the term nakba, but, not one person can even explain how the use of the word is justified. Doesn't seem like a very convincing cause.

 

[DC]

Please share with us the unrevised history of the so-called nakba and cite for us examples of how the creation of Israel has been a "nakba"--a catastrophe--for Arabs.

lol troll, you are the only Nakba denier here. and i will not waste any time with serious posts to you. i dont waste my time with so called Israelis that deny the Nakba.
Especially when you have the absurd belive that the so called God promised you that so called Israel.

 

[Marc39]

lol troll, you are the only Nakba denier here. and i will not waste any time with serious posts to you. i dont waste my time with so called Israelis that deny the Nakba.
Especially when you have the absurd belive that the so called God promised you that so called Israel.

You are unable to articulate the most basic aspect of the so-called nakba, that is, how the creation of Israel is a nakba, a disaster, for Arabs and I'm the troll?

 

[DC]

You are unable to articulate the most basic aspect of the so-called nakba, that is, how the creation of Israel is a nakba, a disaster, for Arabs and I'm the troll?

i posted a link to a video, where an old Israeli woman told how it went on when they established Israel. very touching story. But in your twisted world, the lady was just an anti israeli hamas propagandist i guess.

but hey, see it as what ever you want it to be.

 

[FireGarden]

The organization representing Jews expelled from Arab countries has the details on the value of property left behind. I am not in possession of those deeds.

Do you find the claim credible? Not simply the claim that Arab Jews were forced to leave behind property -- I agree that happened. But the amount of property: 300 billion dollars worth in today's money.

It's known as hedging.

Giving it a name doesn't explain how saying contradictory things prevents people from pointing out you are wrong.

Asdhfkjash are asdfhrty
Asdhfkjash are not asdfhrty

See... I've hedged my bets. But it has to be obvious to everyone that I have made an erroneous statement.

There is no tangible evidence of any Israeli gov't policy of expulsion. Historians, Morris and many others, have combed through millions of pages of archives in hot pursuit of such a plan. Nothing has been uncovered. Such a plan did not exist. You can argue opinion, you cannot argue the facts.

I certainly have argued the facts. My statement was this:

Historians from all over the political spectrum -- from Benny Morris to Ilan Pappe -- agree that Arabs were forced out by the Israeli government.

You said I misrepresented Morris. I have shown that Morris does indeed agree that Arabs were forced out by the Israeli government.

You want to move the goal posts to finding official Israeli government policy? Fine, move those posts. The acts of the Israeli government remain the same. If you are going to blame "bad apples" then explain the orders signed by Moshe Carmel and Yitzhak Rabin. Or do you deny such orders were given?

 

[FireGarden]

Don't worry, I'm sure Marc39 will be back in a matter of minutes to tell us who were the parties to this agreement. My money is on Israel coming to a deal with either the boy scouts of america or the Sri Lankan Cricket team.

In the interests of sorting all this out, I have unilaterally decided to grant Marc39 posting privilages in return for infomation relevant to our inquiries. Let us see if he can keep his end of this posts-for-data agreement.