Israel bans use of word "Nakba" in textbooks

[Marc39]

Don't worry, I'm sure Marc39 will be back in a matter of minutes to tell us who were the parties to this agreement. My money is on Israel coming to a deal with either the boy scouts of america or the Sri Lankan Cricket team.

First, we need to tie-up some loose ends regarding responses to earlier questions I've been trying to extricate from you. Why so elusive? Particularly, since the questions you have left unanswered are far more relevant to this thread. And, you do want to stay on-topic, yes?

So, below are the questions you need to respond to with sufficient explication. After you do so, we can talk about Gaza to your heart's content.

1. Provide specific examples of how the creation of Israel has been a
nakba--a disaster or catastrophe--for the Arabs.

2. Define a "Palestinian"

3. You made vague, almost unintelligible, allusions to Arabs being "fearful and panicked over being killed" What event caused such emotions?

4. You made another vague reference to "displacement" What event caused displacement?

5. Provide a list of historical occasions when Palestinians have had the opportunity for statehood.

Shall we expect you to now go into seclusion, once again?

 

[Marc39]

Besides all the beef in here, are there any official records about the reason to ban the word Nakba besides the obviously propaganda-driven agenda by Lieberman, the racist?

The term nakba, itself, is anti-Israeli propaganda, of the lowest form and, thus, should be banned.

Turkey bans any denigration of the country, its people, its customs and its government, punishable by two years imprisonment. Israel has no less right to preserve its dignity, along with maintaining historical accuracy.

 

[Marc39]

And where on their website do they give details of their evidence? Or do you expect us to go looking for evidence which backs up your claim that the average Arab Jewish family left behind a million dollars worth of property? -- and that assumes very small families.

Did you not already post information from Wikipedia--your favorite source of information--pertaining to the property figure of $300 billion?

Read the interview again. I get the impression that the policy was officially unofficial.

Read Morris's book on the 1948 War. In it, Morris states flatly no official Israeli gov't plan for expulsion existed. In the Haaretz interview, he makes the same assertion.

He himself feels it was the case that Ben-Gurion gave the orders, and he cites the evidence he has: it would be too big a coincidence if expulsion orders were signed immediately after Ben-Gurion visited with Moshe Carmel and Yitzhak Rabin.

"Feelings" do not constitute proper historiography.

So it is Morris's opinion that Ben-Gurion gave the explusion order.

Opinions have no role in proper historiography.

You'll have to explain his words very carefully in order to convince me of that. Perhaps if you link to quotes of his. I have done so: he believes the expulsion orders came from Ben-Gurion. Did he find official papers detailing that this was official policy? No. But he did find a pattern of expulsions which leads him to the conclusion that there was "an atmosphere of [population] transfer. The transfer idea is in the air. The entire leadership understands that this is the idea. The officer corps understands what is required of them. Under Ben-Gurion, a consensus of transfer is created."

Beliefs have no place in proper historiography.

 

[Oliver]

The term nakba, itself, is anti-Israeli propaganda, of the lowest form and, thus, should be banned.

Turkey bans any denigration of the country, its people, its customs and its government, punishable by two years imprisonment. Israel has no less right to preserve its dignity, along with maintaining historical accuracy.

Let's assume that Nakba is propaganda about something that didn't happen: You think that opposing propaganda by propagating that the term Nakba doesn't exist is less of a propaganda than the Nakba-propaganda itself? [LOL?]

What about banning the terms Holocaust and Shoah by referring to it as Massmurder instead? Fair enough since the Holocaust is misused to further Israels interests, shut up opponents and to justify enormously stupid and violent policies the same way as Nakba does for Anti-Israeli propaganda?

 

[Marc39]

actually if there were a land for peace agreement covering the Gaza withdrawal I'm wondering why marc39 is the only person who I've ever heard mention it, maybe you need special goggles to see these things.

All that is needed is knowledge of the subject matter.

 

[Marc39]

Let's assume that Nakba is propaganda about something that didn't happen: You think that opposing propaganda by propagating that the term Nakba doesn't exist is less of a propaganda than the Nakba-propaganda itself? [LOL?]

This is unintelligible. Sorry.

What about banning the terms Holocaust and Shoah by referring to it as Massmurder instead? Fair enough since the Holocaust is misused to further Israels interests, shut up opponents and to justify enormously stupid and violent policies the same way as Nakba does for Anti-Israeli propaganda?

Holocaust and Shoah are historical facts. Giving legitimacy to the so-called nakba is tantamount to legitimizing Holocaust-denial. Both are rubbish.

 

[FireGarden]

Did you not already post information from Wikipedia--your favorite source of information--pertaining to the property figure of $300 billion?

Wiki doesn't provide the evidence required to back up the claim -- it merely states the claim has been made. I don't dispute that the claim has been made.

Read Morris's book on the 1948 War. In it, Morris states flatly no official Israeli gov't plan for expulsion existed. In the Haaretz interview, he makes the same assertion.

"officially unofficial" -- work out what it means.

"Feelings" do not constitute proper historiography.

Opinions have no role in proper historiography.

Beliefs have no place in proper historiography.

Morris cites the evidence he uses to reach his conclusions. And might I remind you that our discussion is about your claim that I misrepresented Morris. I take it you are withdrawing that claim, and moving towards adding Morris to the list of historians you don't like.

 

[The Fool]

First, we need to tie-up some loose ends regarding responses to earlier questions I've been trying to extricate from you. Why so elusive? Particularly, since the questions you have left unanswered are far more relevant to this thread. And, you do want to stay on-topic, yes?

So, below are the questions you need to respond to with sufficient explication. After you do so, we can talk about Gaza to your heart's content.

1. Provide specific examples of how the creation of Israel has been a
nakba--a disaster or catastrophe--for the Arabs.

2. Define a "Palestinian"

3. You made vague, almost unintelligible, allusions to Arabs being "fearful and panicked over being killed" What event caused such emotions?

4. You made another vague reference to "displacement" What event caused displacement?

5. Provide a list of historical occasions when Palestinians have had the opportunity for statehood.

Shall we expect you to now go into seclusion, once again?

sigh...all these have been answered. answered a number of times in many cases. You simply ignore or dismiss the answers remember? If I answer them again or save time by quoting my previous answers no doubt the answers will still not be "sufficient explication"

ok....seems you realize the hilarious claim that there was a land for peace agreement was particularly silly and have decided on a policy of hand waving and diversion to run away from it.. Unfortunately I can't force you to have the courage to back up your claims.

You have an opportunity to triumph magnificently and show how poorly informed your opponents are by simply completing this sentence

The land for peace agreement I assert covered the withdrawal from Gaza settlements was agreed between Israel and (insert a word here)

just one word? Is this the "too hard" question for this thread?

 

[Oliver]

This is unintelligible. Sorry.

Holocaust and Shoah are historical facts. Giving legitimacy to the so-called nakba is tantamount to legitimizing Holocaust-denial. Both are rubbish.

No, Holocaust and Shoah aren't historical facts that legitimize their usage for propaganda purposes after the Nazi-era, even though they refer to historical facts just like the Nakba.

So banning the terms Holocaust and Shoah by calling it a Massmurder of Gays, Jews, the handicapped, Gypsies and political opponents is okay to you since this way it can't be used for Pro-Israeli propaganda only anymore?

Or are you one of the religious idiots who think that the murder of non-jewish people during the Nazi-regime doesn't count as long we all highlight the Jewish part of the events to further Israel's interest?

 

[Oliver]

The term nakba, itself, is anti-Israeli propaganda, of the lowest form and, thus, should be banned.

Turkey bans any denigration of the country, its people, its customs and its government, punishable by two years imprisonment. Israel has no less right to preserve its dignity, along with maintaining historical accuracy.

Are you a friend of ADL?

Their stance was:

"Let's see ... genocide is bad in our case. On the other Hand Turkey is our ally. Mhmm, let's not critizise Turkey for their genocide issues since it isn't about Jews anyway."

• 11 Armenian Genocide controversy

 

[Marc39]

Wiki doesn't provide the evidence required to back up the claim -- it merely states the claim has been made. I don't dispute that the claim has been made.

Good. The world is already filled with an overabundance of needless disputation.

Morris cites the evidence he uses to reach his conclusions. And might I remind you that our discussion is about your claim that I misrepresented Morris. I take it you are withdrawing that claim, and moving towards adding Morris to the list of historians you don't like.

Those with any depth of knowledge of Benny Morris beyond a mere newspaper interview with him are well aware of Benny's tactic of hedging on issues, taking both sides of an argument and, often, contradicting himself in the same sentence. Cleverly, by doing so, he can never be accused of being wrong. He has stated in the Haaretz interview, which is certainly not particularly important, despite your assertions to the contrary, there was no Israeli state policy of Arab expulsion. Surmising an alleged "atmosphere" of transfer does not constitute history.

I heartily commend to you Morris's book on the '48 War, which would clarify his position on expulsion and eliminate any misrepresentations, on your part, of his view on the matter, which is there was no Israeli gov't program of expulsion.

In his book, Morris also takes to task the Arab states for their complicity in the creation of the Palestinian refugee situation that exists to this day and, which, relates back to the so-called nakba. The only nakba was that created by Arabs against their own people.

 

[Marc39]

sigh...all these have been answered. answered a number of times in many cases. You simply ignore or dismiss the answers remember? If I answer them again or save time by quoting my previous answers no doubt the answers will still not be "sufficient explication"

To the contrary, you have not answered those questions. Are you not equipped to do so? Certainly is beginning to appear so.

 

[a_unique_person]

The term nakba, itself, is anti-Israeli propaganda, of the lowest form and, thus, should be banned.

Turkey bans any denigration of the country, its people, its customs and its government, punishable by two years imprisonment. Israel has no less right to preserve its dignity, along with maintaining historical accuracy.

I take it Germany has that right, also.

 

[Marc39]

I take it Germany has that right, also.

Holocaust denial is a crime in Germany.

 

[DC]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ERX8WpM_cRg

 

[Oliver]

Holocaust denial is a crime in Germany.

Are you okay with that? And in contrast: Is Nakba denial a crime in Israel?
What about my other posts, inconvenient responses for your agenda, eh?

 

[Marc39]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ERX8WpM_cRg

Rank anti-Israeli propaganda site.

These insights, below, from Arabs regarding Arab complicity in the nakba, however, are not propaganda...

Jawad Al Bashiti, Arab journalist...

The reasons for the Palestinian Catastrophe [establishment of Israel and the refugee problem] are the same reasons that have produced and are still producing our catastrophes today... The first war between Arabs and Israel had started and the "Arab Salvation Army" told the Palestinians: 'We have come to you in order to liquidate the Zionists and their state. Leave your houses and villages, you will return to them in a few days safely. Leave them so we can fulfill our mission (liquidate Israel) in the best way and so you won't be hurt.' It became clear already then, when it was too late, that the support of the Arab states (against Israel) was a big illusion.

[Source: Al-Ayyam, May 13, 2008]


Mahmoud Al-Habbash, Arab journalist...

The leaders and the elites promised us [refugees] at the beginning of the "Catastrophe" in 1948, that the duration of the exile will not be long, and that it will not last more than a few days or months, and afterwards the refugees will return to their homes, which most of them did not leave until they put their trust in those Arkuvian* [worthless] promises made by the leaders and the political elites. Afterwards, days passed, months, years and decades, and the promises were lost with the strain of the succession of events.

[Source: Al-Hayat Al-Jadida, Dec. 13, 2006]

 

[Oliver]

Are you okay with that? And in contrast: Is Nakba denial a crime in Israel?
What about my other posts, inconvenient responses for your agenda, eh?

Helloooooho? Any[mark]body out there?

 

[Marc39]

Are you okay with that? And in contrast: Is Nakba denial a crime in Israel?
What about my other posts, inconvenient responses for your agenda, eh?

Who caused the so-called nakba?

 

[Thunder]

All that is needed is knowledge of the subject matter.

There was no "land-for-peace" agreement between Hamas and Israel regarding the Gaza Strip. This is a boldface lie.

If this was not a lie, you would be able to easily cite a source or link to prove its truth. But you cannot.

The idea that Israel would negotiate and sign a land-for-peace deal with Islamist Hamas....is insane and insulting to all Israelis.