Moderated Dowsing By Edge

[edge]

My point is if you test the way I stated there can't be not one excuse.

 

[jsfisher]

So, when can the JREF expect your (re-)application?

 

[Klaymore]

If I said it doesn't it follow I understand it?

You know, I once knew a parrot who could say "Cogito ergo sur."

 

[Tricky]

My point is if you test the way I stated there can't be not one excuse.

You underestimate the ability of failed dowsers to make excuses. Heck, you agreed that the test was fair on the first test, but as soon as it was over, you started making excuses. The same is true of Connie Sonne. Experience has shown that almost all dowsers who have failed a fair test (which means 100% of them) will make excuses. Some of them are laughably ludicrous.

 

[GzuzKryzt]

My point is if you test the way I stated there can't be not one excuse.

Great. Pick a location and stick with it.

I bet twenty globnarks you will change your position

...
6: I pick the spot to test at in a park near their office for their convenience.
...

at least once during this thread.

I bet two thousand globnarks that you will not apply properly. Properly means: Application accepted by the JREF. This shouldn't be too hard for you since you seem sure you fulfill all qualifications, right?

 

[GzuzKryzt]

Your proposed protocol features the same problems which have been dealt with ad nauseam in the links I provided earlier.
The main problems:

1. Academic affidavit.
2. The number of trials (100) makes the test too long.
3. You being unable or unwilling to stick to one protocol proposal.

You know the JREF will not accept a protocol proposal which makes for a test duration of more than eight hours.

If you propose a test which takes longer than eight hours, you are setting yourself up for rejection. We have been here before, remember?

 

[Tricky]

I'm taking the fairly unusual step of merging this thread with a much older thread that covers much of the backstory here. This is a moderated thread which means your posts will have to be approved, so try to stay on topic, which is Edge's try at the Million Dollar Challenge. General dowsing posts should be put in the General Skepticism and Paranormal forum.

Thanks

Posted By: Tricky

 

[edge]

You people really crack me up,
you say you want to do the science and then in the same breath:

You know the JREF will not accept a protocol proposal which makes for a test duration of more than eight hours.

If I can spend the night in Ldale. they live there And lets see I would probably spend two nights there, what's so hard? I am doing the tuff stuff?
This will zap my energy.

 

[edge]

Edited by Gaspode: 

Edited for topic

If you propose a test, which takes longer than eight hours, you are setting yourself up for rejection. We have been here before, remember?

That's not why but it was a concern.
Real science takes time that's all there is to it and the final proof will take time what can i say.
Let me do it the old way that is a proven failure?
I have found out why every test is a failure when done that way and there are multiple reasons why, unless?
I already know for sure so prove me wrong.
I won't change the way my set up is, my target and what I use in my stick is up to me.
It won't be a tray.
Probably will be gold in the end of my stick and I will use it for a target too.
I am going to do a test with mercury as a target and I know they will not like that in the test it's too dangerous for them they’ll freak out.
That test will be F.M.I….

 

[Gmonster2]

pig wire interference!!!!!!!!!!

"What I discovered is pig wire in the slab we were standing on as with most fairly modern buildings.
Or possibly in that building rebar crisscrossing for reinforcing of the concrete.

The same thing has happened in and on other locations where I have tested on slabs."



Which is why Jref has an open test before you started to check everything was ok and there was no interference yet you went ahead with the test and didn't mention it , why is that?

 

[remirol]

I won't change the way my set up is, my target and what I use in my stick is up to me.

No, edge. I don't think they're going to let you put magnets in your stick and then dowse for iron.

 

[Tricky]

You people really crack me up,
you say you want to do the science and then in the same breath:

Actually, the MDC is not touted as a scientific experiment. It is designed to see if you can do what you say you can do. If you can do it with magic, no science need be involved.

If I can spend the night in Ldale. they live there And lets see I would probably spend two nights there, what's so hard? I am doing the tuff stuff?
This will zap my energy.

I cannot see anything in your protocol that should require strenuous exertion, so you must be talking about some other kind of energy. I suppose it might be possible to make the test last longer, but you realize that few people are going to volunteer to take two days out of their lives to watch this. If they have to be lodged while you restore your "energy", that is going to be even more expense for you. It is better for your own finances that you keep the test as short as possible. I don't think Randi is going to give you an advance on the million.

 

[Lothian]

If I can spend the night in Ldale. they live there And lets see I would probably spend two nights there, what's so hard? I am doing the tuff stuff?

With all respect, getting results in accordance with chance ain't that tough. You just choose a hard way to do it.

 

[petre]

As a starting point for people new to Edge, let me pose a situation:

Imagine your life experiences have led you to believe in a paranormal phenomenon, but you accept that you do not understand exactly how it works (just because you've discovered something doesn't instantly make you an expert in all aspects of it of course). Now add that you are also willing to believe in a very large number of unknown confounders (i.e. that there are many things that alter how the phenomenon behaves), many of which occur naturally nearly everywhere on earth. Now attempt to devise a controlled test that will demonstrate this phenomenon consistently. Whenever you consider the thought "My original conclusion that this phenomenon exists may have been incorrect, given my exhaustive study of the matter and continued inability to achieve consistent results in a controlled test", strengthen your resolve and resist the urge to accept that thought. Instead drive on to postulate a refined theory of the phenomenon where some other previously-unconsidered aspect of your testing environment must have been a confounder. Embrace this new refined theory and retest until satisfied that it is consistent (and if it is not, then refine the theory further).

Now fast-forward that thought experiment 7 years. After about a thousand tests, you've succeeded (once) in producing results that you would only expect at a likelyhood of 1:1000 by chance alone. You then proceed immidiately to making renewed overatures to the JREF at being ready to be tested. You might still have a few kinks to work out (you "kinda" tested it again and it didn't work great, but you didn't "really" try to test it much, it already worked once!) but you can do all of that in the ample time it will take to get your application accepted anyway. If you decide to see that whole process through of course.

I wish that every applicant had the willingness to self-test that Edge has demonstrated time and again. Edge is a fine example of why for some people, it would be better for them if I didn't get my wish. I don't necessarily mean it would be better in Edge's specific case. He appears to live a somewhat-fulfilling life in this pursuit or I would not participate, for fear of encouraging him.

With the challenge drawing to a close, I suppose there must eventually be a "last test". It could be a Carina Landin test, or maybe Connie Sonne's test at the last TAM will be the swan song of this chapter. If I had to choose though, I'd probably pick an Edge retest.

 

[politas]

Alright let me start with this, I was watching my arms and my hands to see if it was the ideomotor effect in other words I made sure I didn’t move at all.
No looking away from my hands or arms.
Meditating to be perfectly still. He was assigned to observe and report the readings of the scale.

None of these controls are effective at preventing the ideomotor effect. The only ways to prevent the ideomotor effect from operating is double-blinding or dowsing using some device you weren't actually in physical contact with in any way.

Now that I know that I was perfectly still. Having some one do this isn’t necessary for the test; we had to learn much quickly as I had just figured out this important part of the test measuring the force both ways.
If I need some one to help see it for me because it also twists it will be a JREF rep.

You will need to make the determination of which container holds the target entirely by yourself (or perhaps with the help of a friend). There is no way that you could trust a JREF examiner to give you helpful assistance. The test is confrontational.

 

[edge]

First thing I have tested many times in the way my protocol is set up.
We could do 800 passes and it would still be in the 70 to 90% range.
Second thing is it as I see it this is not paranormal at all, this is my belief and conclusion on that issue. This might be the only category that may be provable for that reason.

It is not something that is Ideomotor although it can appear that way, in some instances it might have some bearing on it and appear that way.
I cam see that with the L shaped rods, because it's impossible to keep them level while walking.

The JREF never said they wouldn't test in that way because it is still double blind and more if they want it that way, which might mean I am correct about the negativity of proving it to be something other than above mention reasons why it occurs, "dowsing", what as set down by the JREF and other scientists and peoples of the past there's where the magic came from, the paranormal.

I never said I was dowsing with steel and magnets.

I have never seen a magnet that could react to steel at a four foot level unless it was in a steel mill, like where I worked in the past, they had a 15 ton capability electromagnet on the end of a crane, that would be kind of hard to put into the end of a willow stick, stop being afraid and looking for false reasoning to retain your belief on other peoples' word.

Ask SezMe if I ever got closer than 4 feet to the target.
If you viewed his report then you know that the dowsing stick was tied to a truss with a string at that level.

I wouldn't have to pay them to stay there; they live there in their homes, right there in Ldale if they work in the office I am sure they have homes there.

Edited by Gaspode: 

Edited for topic - moderated thread

 

[edge]

You will need to make the determination of which container holds the target entirely by yourself (or perhaps with the help of a friend). There is no way that you could trust a JREF examiner to give you helpful assistance. The test is confrontational.

I don't trust no one, your right, so I will have to get new glasses. oh well need em any way.

 

[rjh01]

No, edge. I don't think they're going to let you put magnets in your stick and then dowse for iron.

Great tip for you. Agree to douse for gold (provided by you). Then turn up with a regular metal detector. Please note you must have practiced with this metal detector beforehand. Some of them do not detect gold, or may require adjusting for gold.

Remember my standard advise (always rejected for some reason) is practice using the protocol a lot. Just the smallest of changes can change success to failure as another recent applicant found out. She convinced her family of her ability then failed because she had to use another, slightly different protocol.

 

[EHocking]

First thing I have tested many times in the way my protocol is set up.
We could do 800 passes and it would still be in the 70 to 90% range...

Mike, I still think that the major stumbling block is the time that would be required to take your test.

You could reduce both setup and trial time as well as material needed by testing for 1 sample in 5 containers.

Admittedly, you'd have to get 10 from 10 for a 10 pass trial to beat 1:1Million odds, but has JREF determined that these MUST be the odds you need to beat for the preliminary?

If not, 10 passes of 5 containers (i.e. 50 in total) would require a success rate of 8 to beat odds of 1:10,000. Perhaps sufficient for a preliminary?

ETA. I see from post 4 from JREF in the original Challenge thread that the odds given to beat for edge are indeed 1:10,000.
"A positive result for the preliminary test will be identifying the target substance (of either gold or silver) correctly in seven out of the ten sets of ten."
Source for my "calculation" of odds.

 

[Marcus]

You people really crack me up,
you say you want to do the science and then in the same breath:

If I can spend the night in Ldale. they live there And lets see I would probably spend two nights there, what's so hard? I am doing the tuff stuff?
This will zap my energy.

Haven't we been through this before? Many times? We tell you why something would not be acceptable in a protocol, you say, "well, it should be" and insist on leaving it in. You are quite experienced at the challenge now, you should know the rules without people having to quote them at you.