Morrigan
Crone of War
- Joined
- Feb 3, 2006
- Messages
- 8,262
Um, that's correct. There is no New France. Nobody here refers to themselves as a New French.
Israel bans use of word "Nakba" in textbooks
- Thread starter Thunder
- Start date
You suggested a Palestinian holocaust resulted from the creation of Israel, yet, cannot state how many Palestinians died. Not really much of a holocaust, is it, now?
Fear and panic over what? Doesn't Wikipedia say? It's not as if you didn't have more than ample time to look it up.
You have asserted the creation of Israel is a "catastrophe", but, cannot cite any legitiimate reasons why. You equate the creation of Israel with the holocaust, but, are bereft of any facts to substantiate your charge. I didn't think you could. Thus, I'm not disappointed.
the creation of Israel was not the catastrophe, the catastrophe, was the ethnic cleansing of the 90% of Palestinian Arabs that took place in Israel during the War of Independence.
Not ethnic cleansing you say?? Then why have the Palestinian refugees or their descendants NEVER been allowed to return??
if israel did not force out the Arabs, or was not happy to see them go, they would allow them to return. But they have not been allowed to return and no refugees have been compensated for their lost property.
Israel was basically a freedom loving and human rights respecting democracy...for one day.
Not ethnic cleansing you say?? Then why have the Palestinian refugees or their descendants NEVER been allowed to return??
if israel did not force out the Arabs, or was not happy to see them go, they would allow them to return. But they have not been allowed to return and no refugees have been compensated for their lost property.
Israel was basically a freedom loving and human rights respecting democracy...for one day.
The Fool
Penultimate Amazing
- Joined
- Aug 1, 2002
- Messages
- 16,536
No...I suggested that you could use variation in the estimates of the number of dead to cast doubt on the event having occured. Advice that you seem to have taken.
And I didn't call it a Holocaust....you did. It was the Palestinians Nakba not the Jews Shoah. A lot of difference between the two. What they do have in common is groups of people who deny or belittle them.
fear and panic over the posibility of being killed. A common source of fear and panic.
nope...you made that up.
No...I compare your methods of Nakba denial with the methods used by Holocaust deniers, Moon landing deniers and flat earthers...there is much to compare.
you really need to pay more attention to my posts and I wouldn't have to spend so much time pointing out the stuff you simply make up.
Yes, you've repeated that rhetorical device plenty of times in this thread, but you have yet to make it a logical argument.
So far it's just empty talk, a way to quickly dismiss the issue.
ETA: what's the use anyway, I expect your next response to be yet another frothing at the mouth with no substance...
Last edited:
a_unique_person
Director of Hatcheries and Conditioning
I didn't say there was a Palestinian holocaust. They are referring to a Nakba.
The Fool
Penultimate Amazing
- Joined
- Aug 1, 2002
- Messages
- 16,536
I don't want to dismiss anything. Tell me what you think I'm dismissing and we can address it.
Gibberish. Give us a "variation in the estimate of the number of dead" (Whatever that means) 6 million? 5 million? 1 million? How many Palestinians were killed?
Back-pedaling? You equated the Holocaust with the so-called nakba, which is a baseless comparison. When asked to substantiate your claim, you retreat.
Define a "Palestinian" Your posts melt into drivel when attempting to discuss the nakba. Tell us who the Palestinians are.
The matter at hand is: How is the reestablishment of the state of Israel "catastrophic" for Arabs? Please cite some key examples.
Let's try again: "Fear and panic over the possibility of being killed" in what event? People don't just go around "fearing and panicking" unless there is good reason. What was the reason?
Nope, I know the subject matter. I need not resort to making anything up.
Then, it should be easy for you to discuss how Israel has been catastrophic for Arabs. For the umpteenth time, do so.
What I really need is...For you to tell us how Israel is a nakba for the Arabs. I don't have all week, either.
Nakba means catastrophe. Maybe you can prove more conversant than others in detailing the ways in which the creation of Israel has been catastrophic for Arabs.
a_unique_person
Director of Hatcheries and Conditioning
The Palestinians have their own story to tell.
http://www.palestineremembered.com
It's not my place to speak for them, nor endorse what they say.
Their own story is a complete delusion. Starting with calling the territory Palestine, since for most of the past several hundred years, Arabs viewed Palestine as Syria and "Palestinians" as Syrians. The term "Palestinian", historically, never applied to Arabs.
Translation: You are unable to offer any proof that Israel has been catastrophic for Arabs beyond a link to Arab propaganda.
Last edited:
Actually, Marc, the plan to ban the term Nakba seems to be purely for propaganda purposes. Mhmm, I wonder who's falling for it in here ...
Israeli statehood was the best thing to have happened to the Arabs in the region. It is this perspective--not propaganda--that merits highlighting in Israeli school books. If Israeli Arabs want to feed their children anti-Israeli rhetoric, they are free to move to nearby Gaza and the West Bank, where school systems do not recognize Israel's existence in their text books.
The Fool
Penultimate Amazing
- Joined
- Aug 1, 2002
- Messages
- 16,536
Impossible to say "exactly" and you know it. Just the same as Holocaust deniers are fixated about the "exact" number of Jews killed in the Holocaust and use this to wedge in doubt over the event.
you need to demonstrate I'm peddling towards something before you can claim I an now backpeddling from it. I didn't equate the Holocaust with the Nakba. Its just the next claim you make about my posts that is a fabrication. I'll add it to "You equate the creation of Israel with the holocaust" and "You suggested a Palestinian holocaust resulted from the creation of Israel" and.......... this one is particularly interesting...
You have asserted the creation of Israel is a "catastrophe"
It deserves bolding...you even put the word in quotes and said I asserted it....please quote where I asserted it..it doesn't exist, just like the previous examples. Is this just a string of oversights or a policy?
You do manage one thing....to call the Nakba the "so-called Nakba" like the way holocaust deniers use the term "so-called Holocaust"
I answered this the last time you asked me. Yopu need to remember the people you have already tried this one on.
you are entitled to that opinion and told me a number of times in the past that my posts are drivel.... Restating it doesn't add to its veracity as a claim. You need to point out the errors.
2nd attempt at this on in this same thread...answer provided in previous threads.
The establishment of Israel and the Nakba happened around the same time. Neither needed to happen to allow the other. They are not cause and effect.
ummm....people killing them?
Then you should have no problems finding the fabrications I mentioned earlier....give it your best try..
Is that your opinion? That Israel has been "catastrophic for Arabs"? Its certainly not mine. Its way too simplistic.
I know you really need me to tell you this but its difficult when its not my opinion. The Nakba occurred for a number of reasons. It was not required for the Foundation of Israel...this would have happened with or without a Nakba.
Ballpark the figure. Since you have characterized Israel as a "catastrophe" for Arabs, one would think you'd know how many "Palestinians" were killed as a consequence of such a catastrophe. What figures has your scholarship uncovered?
How has Israel been a catastrophe for Arabs? Let's try to advance the discussion beyond mere allegations and empty rhetoric.
How, again, has Israel been a nakba?
Please provide specifics on how Israel has been a catastrophe for Arabs.
Please tell us how you define a Palestnian.
Around the same time? What time was that? What prompted Arabs to walk around "fearing and panicking they'd be killed"?
Ummm, what people and under what circumstances?
Quite the contrary. Israeli statehood has been highly beneficial to Arabs.
And, Israel has been a catastrophe for Arabs how, again?
bigjelmapro
Illuminator
- Joined
- Jan 14, 2009
- Messages
- 3,509
The education ministry made a positive move to ban the use of this term. If one wants to use the term, there are plenty of outlets to do it outside of schools, from writing books for general circulation to visiting Ramallah, and browsing the TV channels and bookstores there. Sure there are plenty of package deals with books regarding the 'naqba' and the 'Protocols of the elders of zion' or the favorite translation of 'Mein Kampf' into Arabic.
So hoorah for this move.
So hoorah for this move.
Listen it's not complicated. To call what happened a "catastrophe", to have a specific term for it and commemorating it a day after Israel's independence day is equating Israel's existence to a "catastrophe". Of course "Nakba" means the creation of Israel. You can't commemorate the expulsions and taking of the land without referring to the creation of Israel. To deny this is ridiculous.
The Arabs associate the state of Israel with their suffering, their loss, and their shame, and as long as this word will be used, there will never be peace and reconciliation between the two nations. As I said earlier, it's a constant reminder of their hatred and resentment, it's a tool to fuel nationalism and victimization. It's a divisive word when what we need right now is coexistence.
Last edited:
Actually, Marc, the plan to ban the term Nakba seems to be purely for propaganda purposes. Mhmm, I wonder who's falling for it in here ...
Actually, the propaganda is to have this word fuel the conflict. How are these people going to reconciliate with the Israelis and live peacefully with them when they are constantly reminded of how, in their opinion, Israel was built on their suffering and is not supposed to be there?
Answer me that seriously, genius, without the smilies.
Lets see now..
-they lost about 90% of their population in Israel. that 90% cannot return to their lands or get compensation for their lands.
the lucky Arabs who were allowed to stay in Israel by the Jews, were forced to live under martial law until the 1970s. more of their land was confiscated by Israel for building Jew-only towns and villages.
doesn't sound like a good thing...now does it?
though, in Neo-Zionist logic, all things are debatable.
Oliver
Penultimate Amazing
- Joined
- Aug 12, 2006
- Messages
- 17,396
Uhm, you acknowledge that the term Nakba refers to a historical fact. Now for a Skeptic it might be unpopular to hush up historic facts by deleting common terms referring to those facts, but you would be in favor of it nevertheless.
Funny enough, if Germany would ban the term Holocaust in the name of peace, you would be the first one going ape and whining about it all year long.
Double moral standards, Pardalis.
Not to mention that the banning of Nakba actually fuels the conflict, not the other way around. And I assume that people learning from Nakba-free history books will stumble about Nakba on the internet and think: "What the .. , why did I never heard about that before? ... Jewish Conspiracy!".
Last edited: