Hardfire: Szamboti / Chandler / Mackey

Dave Rogers said:
For my purposes, what I want is an expression for force as a function of compression that I'm confident is an overestimate of the column resistance. If it's generally agreed that 3% is not only an overestimate, but a gross overestimate, then I can plug it into the model and see if there is still no jolt; if there isn't, then Szamboti's argument is refuted. At the moment I'm assuming linear increase in force up to the average of yield and ultimate strain at somewhere a bit above 0.2%, then constant force at that value up to 3%, which I think makes my columns twice as strong as Szamboti. I need to check the numbers again, but a first look indicates that the increase in energy absorption doesn't actually affect the jolt significantly; hardly surprising in retrospect, since it's the peaks in the acceleration I'm looking at rather than the collapse time (which is very much affected by the energy absorption). Since I was using ultimate strength rather than yield strength, the jolt is actually less. I'll post some results when I've checked them, but it still looks like - for the structure I've defined - no jolt by the time the angle reaches half a degree.

Ryan, sorry for intruding into your thread with a rather off-topic discussion. Maybe I should start my own thread some time.

Dave
Click to expand...

Yes, yes you should start your own thread :)
 
alienentity said:
Dave, I think that's a good idea also. Start another thread.

btw, what did you think of Moorea34's 'missing jolt' calcs?

http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showthread.php?postid=4880046#post4880046

I believe it was you who pointed out a while ago that Mr. Szamboti's method smoothed out the data so it would fail to show any deceleration.
Click to expand...

The speed was smoothed in the first version of the paper.

They have changed this stupid method a few days later...

But the quality of the paper is not best for all !
 
moorea34 said:
The speed was smoothed in the first version of the paper.

They have changed this stupid method a few days later...

But the quality of the paper is not best for all !
Click to expand...

I sincerely hope that they have kept a revision history ;)
 
alienentity said:
Dave, I think that's a good idea also. Start another thread.
Click to expand...

OK. I'll refine my calculations a little, then start one when I'm at a point I'm happy with.

alienentity said:
btw, what did you think of Moorea34's 'missing jolt' calcs?
Click to expand...

I agree with them entirely. I approached it from the opposite direction; the range of values for acceleration derived directly from McQueen and Szamboti's own data has outlier points as low as zero deceleration. Since they're assuming impacts on an undamaged structure, they must be overestimating the jolt; even so, the acceleration minima weren't very different to their predictions.

alienentity said:
I believe it was you who pointed out a while ago that Mr. Szamboti's method smoothed out the data so it would fail to show any deceleration.
Click to expand...

Yes, although Szamboti himself preferred not to admit to that. He has at least fixed that error.

Dave
 
Any word or update on if and when the debate will take place?

:popcorn1
 
Not a chance. It will be shot live, but then they have to interleave their studio footage, my camera, and David's camera. ETA is a few weeks. But it will be up on the 'net for free when it's done.
 
triforcharity said:
Can I watch them live via internet by chance???
Click to expand...

I don't think the Hardfire show is played live, although they have had questioners call in. However the show has been very good about getting the tapes out quickly, even before they are played on the public access channel. The only delay I've seen was when they were waiting on Richard Gage to send them the footage of him recorded remotely.
 
The reason gage takes so long is becaause he is off playing with boxes and such. aAnd we ALL know how much he loves his boxes!!


Anyway, thanks guys!! I appreciate it. Please, keep us updated!!
 
R.Mackey said:
Not a chance. It will be shot live, but then they have to interleave their studio footage, my camera, and David's camera. ETA is a few weeks. But it will be up on the 'net for free when it's done.
Click to expand...

I hope you demolish them

(pun intended. :p)
 
Negative.

At present it appears that David Chandler has dropped out. I won't pretend to know why.

Tony is still on board and isn't causing any trouble. We have a possible date for August 16 pencilled in; of course the show itself will take a couple of weeks to complete after we tape.
 
R.Mackey said:
Negative.

At present it appears that David Chandler has dropped out. I won't pretend to know why.

Tony is still on board and isn't causing any trouble. We have a possible date for August 16 pencilled in; of course the show itself will take a couple of weeks to complete after we tape.
Click to expand...

Interesting. Please keep us posted as to the dates when they are firmed up.
 
R.Mackey said:
Negative.

At present it appears that David Chandler has dropped out. I won't pretend to know why.

Tony is still on board and isn't causing any trouble. We have a possible date for August 16 pencilled in; of course the show itself will take a couple of weeks to complete after we tape.
Click to expand...

How suprising...(Bolded)
 
R.Mackey said:
Negative.

At present it appears that David Chandler has dropped out. I won't pretend to know why.

Tony is still on board and isn't causing any trouble. We have a possible date for August 16 pencilled in; of course the show itself will take a couple of weeks to complete after we tape.
Click to expand...

This is upsetting. I honestly thought he, of all people would stay.

Ryan, do you know if Hardfire has a studio audience? I will be in New York that week and would love to sit it!
 
R.Mackey said:
Negative.

At present it appears that David Chandler has dropped out. I won't pretend to know why.

Tony is still on board and isn't causing any trouble. We have a possible date for August 16 pencilled in; of course the show itself will take a couple of weeks to complete after we tape.
Click to expand...

I'm not surprised a truther dropped out...

Let us know the status as the day approacheth........
 
Isn't it amazing how in atheism vs religion debates, there is no shortage of people wishing to stand up and debate the likes of Richard Dawkins and Sam Harris, but in the troofer debate, despite the fact they claim to have the truth, they will not stand up and debate debunkers... Or at least when they do, it's rare.

The lack of coherence in the troofer movement is mind-boggling.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Back
Top Bottom