single-payer system ... singled out

[Prometheus]

An increase of $1,200? Is that per year, or what? And what are your actual premiums now? This sounds absolutely unconscionable.

Rolfe.

Yes, it's an annual increase, from $2544 to $3756 (That's just for the portion that I pay out of pocket. My employer also pays around 3 times that amount on my behalf). Also, as I mentioned, there are co-payment increases as well; for instance, when my daughter was born 2 years ago, I had to pay $100 out-of-pocket for the delivery, while for my son just recently born I had to pay $400.

 

[Prometheus]

Where do you live then?

Massachusetts.

 

[Rolfe]

Yes, it's an annual increase, from $2544 to $3756 (That's just for the portion that I pay out of pocket. My employer also pays around 3 times that amount on my behalf). Also, as I mentioned, there are co-payment increases as well; for instance, when my daughter was born 2 years ago, I had to pay $100 out-of-pocket for the delivery, while for my son just recently born I had to pay $400.

It's not that the amounts are large in themselves, but that you're paying all that on top of your taxes which are funding a public system you can't access.

Rolfe.

 

[Doc Daneeka]

Yes, it's an annual increase, from $2544 to $3756 (That's just for the portion that I pay out of pocket. My employer also pays around 3 times that amount on my behalf). Also, as I mentioned, there are co-payment increases as well; for instance, when my daughter was born 2 years ago, I had to pay $100 out-of-pocket for the delivery, while for my son just recently born I had to pay $400.

Um...er...that is utterly horrific. You personally pay about $300 per month? Would it be rude of me to ask (roughly) what your taxes are, as a percentage of income? I ask only because I am often told that we Canadians can only support our healthcare system via extraordinarily high taxes.

When my son was born, the total cost for us was about $100 as well, though that was the cost to have a private room in that particular hospital.

 

[Prometheus]

Um...er...that is utterly horrific. You personally pay about $300 per month? Would it be rude of me to ask (roughly) what your taxes are, as a percentage of income? I ask only because I am often told that we Canadians can only support our healthcare system via extraordinarily high taxes.

When my son was born, the total cost for us was about $100 as well, though that was the cost to have a private room in that particular hospital.

The total I actually pay in income taxes, after all the deductions and credits I'm able to take, works out to around 22% of my gross income.

 

[Rolfe]

The total I actually pay in income tax alone works out at 17.4% of my gross income for a typical month. I pay another 9% in "National Insurance", which is compulsory, but which is specifically designed to fund the state retirement pension. If I haven't paid these contributions for a full 30 years (for any reason at all) then I am not entitled to the full level of state retirement pension.

I mention the NI contributions because there is some suspicion that the government treats it all like general taxation, and the existence of this element does bring the total tax I pay up to 26.4% of my gross income. However, I will get the full retirement pension in due course to supplement my private pension, so it's a bit moot whether the extra 9% should be counted as "tax" for present purposes.

I should point out that I have no dependents and no extra tax allowances over and above the basic "personal allowance" that every one is entitled to make before tax liability kicks in.

There are also local property taxes (but they don't go towards healthcare), and a purchase tax set at 15%, and various other taxes, but I don't get the impression that these are markedly higher than they are in the USA either. And healthcare is mainly funded from income tax.

For this I get, in healthcare benefits, the following I mentioned in another thread.

• No maximum lifetime ceiling on coverage.
• No co-pay apart from a small (£5) prescription tax.
• No restrictions or exclusions due to pre-existing conditions.
• Access to the highest-tech cutting-edge interventions if needed.
• No need to consider healthcare coverage when changing jobs or leaving the workforce.
• Freedom to choose and change doctor at will (though if I do want to change my GP he might be a bit cross because he'll lose money as a result).
• Freedom to choose any suitable NHS facility for hospital outpatient or inpatient treatment.
• Contributions are at their maximum when I can most afford them (that is, when I have a high income) and taper off when I can't afford them, without loss of cover.
• Specified entitlements as regards waiting times and availability of treatments.
• No-cost participation in population-wide health screening programmes.

This is of course in addition to all the other things I get which are funded from taxation, from the fire brigade to public parks to the roads I drive on.

But no. It's COMMUNISM!!! (Do we have a smilie for the sign against the Evil Eye?) You want no part in it!

Rolfe.

 

[Architect]

DId you remember (a) that Prescription Charges are on their way out, and (b) those free eyesight checks?

 

[Darat]

And even now most people won't pay that "co-payment" - children in full time education don't pay it, people over the age 60/65, pregnant women don't, people on social benefits and the like. It is only a small minority of people who do pay it.

 

[Rolfe]

Well, yes, I did remember all that. But it's trivial. Free eye tests, but then you pay for your glasses. And dentistry is another matter, because most people do pay a fair whack of co-pay, and the "luxury" level is set relatively low so if you want a nice smile rather than the toothache to go away you better be prepared to put your hand in your pocket.

But as I said, it's trivial compared to being able to get open-heart surgery without being billed for a farthing.

Rolfe.

 

[Architect]

There was a story in one of the Sundays recently - the Judge in the (Scottish) Sunday Mail, IIRC - about some dimwitts who hadn't renewed their household contents insurance and then had a fire. It was one of the poorer bits of the country.

Anyway, the DSS (or whatever we call them now) gave them a grant and a loan to allow them to buy basic essentials. They also found them temporary accommodation.

In BAC-world and if we apply that to medecine, it seems, you just shout "that'll teach you not to have insurance!" and leave them to it. Tell them to sue the cooker manufacturer for selling a faulty appliance.....

 

[Prometheus]

...

But no. It's COMMUNISM!!! (Do we have a smilie for the sign against the Evil Eye?) You want no part in it!

Rolfe.

LOL! I tried to argue with my boss that your system is better than ours and that was exactly her response!

 

[Rolfe]

Why is it communism when it's healthcare, but not communism when it's the fire brigade? Or the public library even?

Enquiring minds want to know.

Rolfe.

 

[Oliver]

Why is it communism when it's healthcare, but not communism when it's the fire brigade? Or the public library even?

Enquiring minds want to know.

Rolfe.

Because those who argue this way are used to all the services in place. If private companies would run police stations, any call for letting the Government run the police then would be communism/socialism/usual-right-wing-tittle-tattle-BS-twaddle as well.

Not to mention all the other arguments: "Oh look what the Government Police in Iran does, how stupid Canadian Government-aided Mounties look like, and think about all the waiting times until they arrive because bureaucrats would hold long meetings before they decide to help you, and how much it would cost Taxpayers, yadda yadda yadda ..."

 

[DC]

LOL! I tried to argue with my boss that your system is better than ours and that was exactly her response!

pls tell me she said it as a joke

 

[Oliver]

pls tell me she said it as a joke

It wasn't, that's the funny part.

 

[Safe-Keeper]

It's COMMUNISM!!!

As I wrote in the other thread (public health care vs. public schools), it's ridiculous how much of an effect it has on certain people to inject the C-word into discussions on economics, no matter how little justification you have for making the injection.

As Rolfe said, is it still "Communism" when it's the fire brigade, school, police or Army? The State has you at gunpoint! The slightest bit of rebellion and it can prevent you from making use of your schools, libraries, water (or is the water works private in the US?) and fire brigade! What will you do then?

Seriously, though, the implication that anything left-wing is "Communism" is as ridiculous as me implying anything related to privatization will lead to anarchy.

 

[Fiona]

It is a magic word. Woos like magic words

 

[Safe-Keeper]

Ooooh, so it's like "Al Gore"!

 

[3point14]

As I wrote in the other thread (public health care vs. public schools), it's ridiculous how much of an effect it has on certain people to inject the C-word into discussions on economics, no matter how little justification you have for making the injection.

As Rolfe said, is it still "Communism" when it's the fire brigade, school, police or Army? The State has you at gunpoint! The slightest bit of rebellion and it can prevent you from making use of your schools, libraries, water (or is the water works private in the US?) and fire brigade! What will you do then?

Seriously, though, the implication that anything left-wing is "Communism" is as ridiculous as me implying anything related to privatization will lead to anarchy.

Last I heard water was public in the US, I could be wrong. It does mean that of course the west side of the Atlantic is infested with COMMUNISTS, whereas here on the other side of the pond the free-market capitalists inhabit good old blighty.

 

[Eskarina]

Last I heard water was public in the US, I could be wrong. It does mean that of course the west side of the Atlantic is infested with COMMUNISTS, whereas here on the other side of the pond the free-market capitalists inhabit good old blighty.

And I'm sorry to say that the water quality in the UK is dismal compared to Germany (public), at least for the parts in both countries that I'm familiar with.