• Security incident: ISF was recently accessed by intruders. Please change your password, and change it anywhere else you used it. Read more

Give autodidacts and independent learners a chance

lightfire22000 said:
Do you? You use phrases like "epic fail" that make you sound high or something.

Accreditation makes college costs rise even when the market dictates that they drop.
Click to expand...
lightfire22000 said:
It's a trust or a government sanctioned monopoly.
Click to expand...

Why are you talking to yourself?

Is it the forum UI thing again? There is an 'Edit' button, down-right. I just used it to add this clarification.
 
Last edited:
I didn't want to use the edit button right there and I thought I should quote myself to refer the reader to what I was saying.
 
drkitten said:
So the answer is, "no, you don't even read the drivel you post."

The final paragraphs of the article you cite specifically discuss the reasons for rising costs. And, oddly enough, they're exactly the part that the accreditation agencies don't care about and don't even bother to examine (like "concerts and plays")
Click to expand...

They can spend all of that money because they have a monopoly. The students are forced to go to those schools. In short, it's price fixing. It's actually cheaper to learn about welding a robot than it is to learn about the English language in a market environment. Welders often pay some money for assistants(not much, but they don't charge), where the Atlantic has a subscription fee.

The article also talks about how schools were dependent on government subsidies. Accreditation is the cause of this. Amazing how you ignore this.

kitten,
Get a real job. It's better than plundering people. Your a licensed crook. Knowledge doesn't cost much money. Job experience might cost a little more, but still should never cost much. Accreditation is the only rational explanation for rising education costs. The colleges impose the extras on the population.
 
Last edited:
lightfire22000 said:
They can spend all of that money because they have monopolies.
Click to expand...

No. They can spend all of that money because they get more money if they spend it.

It's actually a market-driven price increase; students want to go to schools with expensive non-educational luxuries (like "concerts and plays") and don't want to go to minimalist schools with an academic focus. And everyone in the industry knows it, which is why they're playing the one-up game with facilities.

... and the reason they're doing that is precisely because it's not a monopoly. There are several thousand accredited four-year universities in the United States alone, and they all need (good) students to keep running. As a result, recruitment is a fiercely competitive aspect of the higher education industry, and colleges are spending money like water to be able to position themselves against other accredited colleges in the search for students.

None of this should be news to you; not only is it common knowledge, but it was also laid out in detail in the very article you cited. The article explains in detail that you are absolutely wrong in every meaningful and relevant aspect.

It's marketplace pressure that's hard to ignore -- a multimillion-dollar, keep-up-with-the-Joneses competition.

"It's the idea that 'They've got a new dorm, so we have to have a new one, too,' " said Bennett at the Center for College Affordability.
Click to expand...

Yes. Damn that "monopolistic" competition.
 
lightfire22000 said:
Nope, it's price fixing. I could care less about dorms
Click to expand...

And once again you're confusing yourself with everyone in the world.

Tell you what. You pay enough to run a university all by yourself and I'll create one. I estimate about ten million dollars in startup costs. Small bills, please.

and since most classes could be done online, they should remove any caps on transfer credit.
Click to expand...

Can't be done. Even TESC needs to check off-site education for quality control.

Accreditation is responsible for much of this.
Click to expand...

"Wrong in every meaningful way."
 
lightfire22000 said:
kitten,
Get a real job. It's better than plundering people. Your a licensed crook.
Click to expand...

drkitten,

You guys have licenses now??! What a great idea! We're so far behind you here in PA. But, we do have a lot of crooks, so an idea like that would go a long ways toward erasing the state budget shortfall. How much do you pay a year? Is there some heirarchy, like apprentice crook, journeyman crook, and then master crook, and are the licensing fees different for each? ;)

Lightfire22000,

You're making some pretty substantial claims about various accreditation and licensure requirements. Is there any proof of what you say? As an andagogue, I'm sympathetic to the idea of accepting autodidacts, but I like to see some substance in claims. After all, Xavier Hollander could have claimed to be a sex therapist but I would have wanted to ask her about transgender issues before giving her a license.
 
lightfire22000 said:
Get a real job. It's better than plundering people. Your a licensed crook. Knowledge doesn't cost much money. Job experience might cost a little more, but still should never cost much. Accreditation is the only rational explanation for rising education costs. The colleges impose the extras on the population.
Click to expand...

Still wrong in every meaningful way, I see.
 
drkitten said:
And once again you're confusing yourself with everyone in the world.

Tell you what. You pay enough to run a university all by yourself and I'll create one. I estimate about ten million dollars in startup costs. Small bills, please.
Click to expand...

For any meaningful measure of quality for a four year undergraduate education, I estimate $10,000 max. Heck, I could get SEMs for less than that at surplus auctions.
 
Holler Hoojer said:
drkitten,

You guys have licenses now??! What a great idea! We're so far behind you here in PA. But, we do have a lot of crooks, so an idea like that would go a long ways toward erasing the state budget shortfall. How much do you pay a year?
Click to expand...

It doesn't work as well as you think; most of the licensure fees end up being paid in counterfeit bills. Those that aren't end up getting paid in Federal Reserve Notes, which as our favorite econ nuts will tell you are also counterfeit bills.

Is there some heirarchy, like apprentice crook, journeyman crook, and then master crook, and are the licensing fees different for each?
Click to expand...

Of course there is. At first level, you're an apprentice, then at second-level you're a footpad, then you become a cutpurse, then a robber, until you hit "name level" and become a master thief at 9th level. I think 9th level is when you're allowed to set up your own thieves' guild university as well. I never wanted the administrative headache, though, so I'm still just working for someone else.
 
Holler Hoojer said:
drkitten,

You guys have licenses now??! What a great idea! We're so far behind you here in PA. But, we do have a lot of crooks, so an idea like that would go a long ways toward erasing the state budget shortfall. How much do you pay a year? Is there some heirarchy, like apprentice crook, journeyman crook, and then master crook, and are the licensing fees different for each? ;)

Lightfire22000,

You're making some pretty substantial claims about various accreditation and licensure requirements. Is there any proof of what you say? As an andagogue, I'm sympathetic to the idea of accepting autodidacts, but I like to see some substance in claims. After all, Xavier Hollander could have claimed to be a sex therapist but I would have wanted to ask her about transgender issues before giving her a license.
Click to expand...

Give me an example of one of my claims regarding licensing laws and I'll show you the laws. Professors pay depends on the University for most things. The University depends on accreditation.
 
lightfire22000 said:
For any meaningful measure of quality for a four year undergraduate education,
Click to expand...

And now we know exactly how bad your undergraduate education is. Thanks for playing.

A pity you only got $10,000 worth of knowledge out of your $150,000 in tuition payments, though.
 
drkitten said:
And now we know exactly how bad your undergraduate education is. Thanks for playing.

A pity you only got $10,000 worth of knowledge out of your $150,000 in tuition payments, though.
Click to expand...
Yes, I concur. Nevertheless, it was about as bad or better than the education most receive. It's certainly better than yours.
 
Last edited:
lightfire22000 said:
Give me an example of one of my claims regarding licensing laws and I'll show you the laws. Professors pay depends on the University for most things. The University depends on accreditation.
Click to expand...

From post #55, "Thomas Edison, Philo Farnsworth, Nikola Tesla, Oliver Heaviside, and Michael Faraday would have all been barred from advancement if some of these agencies had there way." Please show a law that would have hindered any of these men.

By way of example, Westinghouse, Tesla's employer during his more productive years, still employs lots of engineers without licenses. There is no attempt in Pennsylvania to make that practice illegal. There are no laws now. There are no laws contemplated. You are simply wrong.

Further, Michael Faraday was an Englishman. They have precious few laws regarding the practice of science (Faraday was not an engineer). Faraday would today be able to open a little magnetism shop on High Street in Hastings without the coppers ever nabbing him. You are simply wrong.

I'm sorry to be blunt. Your statements have a bit of truth in them but go too far.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Share this page

ISF - Join now!

Every member here is approved by hand. No bots, no spam, just people who care about evidence and honest debate.

Membership is free!

Create your free account

Back
Top Bottom