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Statement Analysis? BS?

Please this is a serious thread. This tool is meant to be used for verbal communications only. What you have said is for written communication.

Edit. And for prepared speeches.
 
Given the actual outcome, this analysis is particularly hilarious:
http://www.statementanalysis.com/duke/

That's much less condemning than I would have expected with:

On the other hand, cooperating with the police, not requesting an attorney and willingness to take a polygraph and passing it is something guilty people usually do not do.

Although that conclusion has nothing to do with analyzing the statement. It only requires the information that he did cooperate, didn't request an attorney and did pass a polygraph. That information could just as easily come from many sources other other than a statement.

This one might lend it a bit of credibility (although not to it's use with written statements since he apparently watched the show and didn't work strictly (if at all) from a written transcript or statement:

the CBS news show "60 Minutes" interviewed the three accused lacrosse players... All three players answered Ed Bradley's questions in a truthful manner... While this still stops short of saying "I did not do it" the boys appeared to be credible.

The preponderance of written statements analyzed, all of them well publicized cases which appear to have been analyzed after the arrest, wouldn't seem to be evidence one way or other that it works at all. He's found evidence of deception in all of them including the one that apparently had no deception (Duke case).

In my quest to become someone who knows a little about it (rather than nothing) I did a search on '"statement analysis" law enforcement'. Most hits that I looked at were semi-advertisements or testimonials but I did find a couple that did provide some information. The first discusses both polygraph and statement analysis.

http://www.crimeresearch.co.za/polygraph_vs_statement_analysis.htm

The bit on polygraphs ends with

The American Polygraph Association has determined that the polygraph is accurate to between 60 - 70%

The next sentence begins with

Statement Analysis is believed to be as reliable as a polygraph examination.

This site says it works best as a stand alone technique (exactly the opposite of LONGTABBER PE's statement):

http://www.forensicinvestigation.co.za/statement_analysis.htm

STATEMENT ANALYSIS focuses on analysing the words in the statement and their inter-relationships, not upon observing "kinesics" or "body language".

it's a "cold" technique. Scoring is based only upon structure and content, not upon gestures, perspiration, eye movements, and other factors that are open to individual interpretation.

Then there's a short section on it in an exert from a book published in Feb, 2008 by Richard A. Leo, Professor of Law (presumably someone who's done enough research to be more than a little knowledgeable about it). In just two paragraphs he writes (among other similar things):

Police interrogation and American justice

But statement analysis is just another form of junk science.

If the theory underlying statement analysis is based on little more than speculation, the empirical evidence for its claims is no better.

As Roger Shuy (1998: 75) has pointed, "the accuracy of detection of deceitful language is... at about the level of chance."

But the last sentence doesn't seem in line with anything else written in those two paragraphs:

As with the other behavioral methods of lie detection analyzed above, the value of SCAN and statement analysis lies simply in it's utility as an interrogation technique.

If he believes it's junk science and it's accuracy is about the level of chance then wouldn't flipping a coin also have utility as an interrogation technique?

Obviously it's not "science" and it's not very accurate. I'm in no position to really judge how useful it is as an investigative tool, but that seems to depend totally on the person using it and it appears very susceptible to misuse- ie misleading an investigator into wild goose chases.
 
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T

<snip>

If he believes it's junk science and it's accuracy is about the level of chance then wouldn't flipping a coin also have utility as an interrogation technique?

Obviously it's not "science" and it's not very accurate. I'm in no position to really judge how useful it is as an investigative tool, but that seems to depend totally on the person using it and it appears very susceptible to misuse- ie misleading an investigator into wild goose chases.

There is a famous case here in Toronto of Susan Nellis who was arrested for murdering babies at the Hospital for Sick Children mostly on the basis (IMHO) of the police being convinced that she must be guilty because she stood on her rights and refused to be questioned by them without a lawyer present. It went downhill from there.

Not much on the 'net as this dates from the late 1970s or early 80s.
 
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Longtabber said it one way - I say it another way: Don't pretend to have the ability to ascertain the effectiveness of something you know relatively nothing about.

Who here is pretending to understand this technique in depth? I haven't seen such a claim yet. All we are saying (and I don't mean to speak for others here) is that some red flags are raised.
 
For what it is worth, I've researched the MacDonald case upside down and sideways for 20 years now, providing material to various authors for articles, and there is a basic flaw here:

MacDonald's Statement: “Let’s see. Monday night my wife went to bed, and I was reading.“

McClish's Analysis: “MacDonald does not introduce his wife by name. If you are with a friend and you meet another friend, it would be considered rude if you do not introduce them to each other. The same thing applies when writing. It is impolite not to introduce a character. This is an indication that something is wrong with the relationship.“

For one thing, MacDonald wasn't speaking to a friend, he was a military officer being interviewed by two military investigators-a situation far from casual. Secondly, MacDonald and Colette had, especially for the 60's/70's, an extremely traditional and conservative relationship. He was dominant, she was submissive. He did not consider Colette his equal. Even if there was trouble in the marriage, which has never been established, it would have been entirely consistent with MacDonald's character to refer to Colette as "my wife" or "Mrs. MacDonald" when speaking to the investigators. An arrogant man defining his territory, so to speak.

MacDonald's Statement: “And this guy started walking down between the coffee table and the couch“

McClish's Analysis: “And this guy started walking..." The word "walking" is a very casual term for someone who is moving throughout your house attacking you and your family. If a struggle took place, we would expect to see language such as "ran" "moved" "came." The word "started" means the guy did not complete the act. (walking) “

My Opinion: 'Ran' might be a good word if the guy ran. If MacDonald used 'moved' or 'came' then would the analysis have said he should have used 'walk'. And "I started (walking/cooking/thinking/etc) seems like a pretty common phrase to me. I hope everyone that ever says they started doing something hasn't been lying to me. Just this afternoon I started to read a book.

The MacDonald coffee table was a) very heavy, and b) set close to the couch. Anyone walking between it and the couch would have had to slow down, turn slightly sideways and inch along, especially in the dark, so as not to bang their shins. MacDonald, of course, knew that, and he also knew that his statement had to fit certain physical details. If he had used the term "ran", wouldn't that have invited the question from the investigators how anyone could run in such a narrow, awkward space? "Walking" is a better fit.

I don't know if that affects the validity of witness statements, or just this one, but it's something to consider.
 
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If he believes it's junk science and it's accuracy is about the level of chance then wouldn't flipping a coin also have utility as an interrogation technique?

Obviously it's not "science" and it's not very accurate. I'm in no position to really judge how useful it is as an investigative tool, but that seems to depend totally on the person using it and it appears very susceptible to misuse- ie misleading an investigator into wild goose chases.

Having been trained in multiple interrogation techniques, including statement analysis, I was struck by a chapter in "Mistakes Were Made (But Not by Me.)" The book is about cognitive dissonance, and much of the first part of the book reminded me of very effective techniques in interrogation, including rationalizing with the suspect to explain why their action was reasonable. Then, one of the chapters was on the Reid Technique of interrogation. Having taken their class, I found it very similar to other private and government classes. I was faced with my own cognitive dissonance moment. Is one of the things I have been trained in worthless? (BTW, thanks to whoever reviewed the book here on the forum, it is what got me to buy it :) )

Most striking is the fact trained investigators are little or no better than an average citizen at determining which statements are true and which are false. What tends to change is the certainty of the observer. Investigators using these techniques are not more correct, they just think they are.

I do think there is some usefulness to watching for clusters of behaviors of suspects, micro facial expressions, neuro-linguistics, and statement analysis. However, I think it is important to realize one's own limitations at detecting lies, and not imagine you can make yourself a human lie detector. If you can talk a suspect into confessing, and equally important giving additional facts showing the truthfulness of the confession, great. If not, you are stuck with other evidence and statements.

Don't even get me started on the smoke and mirrors of the polygraph. Any system for detecting truth that rewards liars is a farce.
 
This is not my field of expertise at all. However, as someone pointed out, all of us get "gut feelings" about someone lying. Without actual proof of lying, how are these gut feelings any different than any other "feelings" people get about any number of things we consider woo?

To me the most compelling evidence of someone lying is when the story is either self-inconsistent or inconsistent with what we know about the subject being discussed. The more you can get someone to talk, the better the chance of revealing this.

If I know someone, then it's easier to tell when they are lying. The more I know someone, the easier it is. Usually there's a change in how they tell a truthful story versus an untruthful one. This assumes, of course, that the person is not an experienced liar who can do it very smoothly and never be found out.

Beyond that I'm not convinced that investigators aren't assuming they are seeing indicators of lying because they have other more reliable information to indicate the person is lying (consistency, for example). Like I said, my experience is limited, but I cannot tell you how many times I've seen an investigative TV show where the investigator points out the manner in which a person says something as an indicator of untruthfulness, and I disagree. They say, "Would an innocent person say or do this?" A lot of times my answer is, "Yes, I would say or do that. People I know would say or do that."

So, as a skeptic, I have to ask where the evidence is proving these theories? I'm willing to be convinced.

Also, someone pointed out that writing Internet posts doesn't count. Where is the evidence for that? Some posts I write are well considered - I pick and choose my words. Other times, like in my joking response to LongTabberPE, it was competely off the cuff - just like normal conversation. It surprised me that my joke was completely missed by someone stating how reliable statement analysis is.
 
This is not my field of expertise at all. However, as someone pointed out, all of us get "gut feelings" about someone lying. Without actual proof of lying, how are these gut feelings any different than any other "feelings" people get about any number of things we consider woo?

To me the most compelling evidence of someone lying is when the story is either self-inconsistent or inconsistent with what we know about the subject being discussed. The more you can get someone to talk, the better the chance of revealing this.

If I know someone, then it's easier to tell when they are lying. The more I know someone, the easier it is. Usually there's a change in how they tell a truthful story versus an untruthful one. This assumes, of course, that the person is not an experienced liar who can do it very smoothly and never be found out.

Beyond that I'm not convinced that investigators aren't assuming they are seeing indicators of lying because they have other more reliable information to indicate the person is lying (consistency, for example). Like I said, my experience is limited, but I cannot tell you how many times I've seen an investigative TV show where the investigator points out the manner in which a person says something as an indicator of untruthfulness, and I disagree. They say, "Would an innocent person say or do this?" A lot of times my answer is, "Yes, I would say or do that. People I know would say or do that."

So, as a skeptic, I have to ask where the evidence is proving these theories? I'm willing to be convinced.

Also, someone pointed out that writing Internet posts doesn't count. Where is the evidence for that? Some posts I write are well considered - I pick and choose my words. Other times, like in my joking response to LongTabberPE, it was competely off the cuff - just like normal conversation. It surprised me that my joke was completely missed by someone stating how reliable statement analysis is.

UY you not only proved your point you drove it into his heart.
 
It seems that the quoted analysis says far more about the person doing the analysis than about the speaker. At one point, he even verges on numerology with the line "3 is a liar's number". This does not inspire confidence. If police are actually using something this subjective, then it seems to be the utmost point of wisdom to never speak to them without a lawyer.

With this method, anything you say can be manipulated to indicate guilt. This has no basis in objective measurement and appears to be little more than a confused attempt at cold-reading.
 
It seems that the quoted analysis says far more about the person doing the analysis than about the speaker. At one point, he even verges on numerology with the line "3 is a liar's number". This does not inspire confidence. If police are actually using something this subjective, then it seems to be the utmost point of wisdom to never speak to them without a lawyer.

With this method, anything you say can be manipulated to indicate guilt. This has no basis in objective measurement and appears to be little more than a confused attempt at cold-reading.

This is absolutely false. Everyone knows two is the liar's number.

Officer: "How much have you had to drink tonight?"
Driver: "Two beers."

:D

Saying "3 is a liar's number" is pretty asinine. That observation is wayyy too open to confirmation bias. That statement needs to be backed up with statistical analysis or it is worthless.
 
I don't believe this stuff works or it would be available in the psychology journals. People there have checked out the accuracy of the polygraph and other techniques and they just have too many false negatives, and false positives. And the liars number is actually 2, NO! 5, ,yes, that's it, like I told you before, 8.
 
I don't believe this stuff works or it would be available in the psychology journals. People there have checked out the accuracy of the polygraph and other techniques and they just have too many false negatives, and false positives. And the liars number is actually 2, NO! 5, ,yes, that's it, like I told you before, 8.

Liar! :duck:
 
I've looked at a few more web sites and since I'm not trying to become an expert I'm not going to spend any more time looking. My personal opinion now is that very best thing that can be said about it is that it's untested (as in scientific double blind testing). I say that's the best thing because testing might show that it does have some valid utility. In that case, no matter how small that utility it would still be better than it appears now.

I've read (either in posts here or on websites that advocate it's use) that it doesn't work well with written statements and that it doesn't work at all with written statements. I've read that it doesn't work well as a stand-along technique but it works best as a stand alone technique. It works just as well as flipping a coin, but it has utility as an interrogation technique. I don't think I need to be someone who knows more than little or nothing about the process say that if it works best as a stand along technique and it doesn't work well as a stand alone technique, then it must work extremely poorly as anything other than a stand alone technique.

I can see only two differences between this technique and flipping a coin. The first is that flipping a coin only costs a quarter (or even a nickle or penny)- and since that can still be spent afterward it wouldn't even have to be a tax quarter. The second is that (for most people) when you flip a coin you know the chances of getting the right answer are only 50-50.

Some people obviously (and honestly) believe it works ("no need to really test it thank you, we "know" it works"). No doubt they think my opinion is worthless because I don't work in law enforcement. But my opinion will never affect them or what they do anyway. If I ever see any local, state, or federal effort to use my tax dollars to fund anything about statistical analysis other than scientific testing I'll be contacting my representative to let them know this voter's opinion.

However (despite my sarcastic comments which might not be seen as humor since I don't use smiley's), I did start this thread in an attempt to get more information and opinions about it, and I do thank everyone who posted and attempted to provide either information, opinions or both.
 
Bob,

I think you have just shown you have gotten your answer. And despite your not being in law enforcement, I think you are quite accurate in your assessment.

Statement analysis, both of oral and written statements, is currently a bit in vogue, as is the micro-expression theory that people will flash an emotion for a fraction of a second. The implication is this flash of emotion can tell you if the person is lying. A few years ago, the leading theory was that people subconsciously released the stress of lying by coughing, fidgeting, etc. When that was shown to be unreliable, then the experts said to look for clusters of these behaviors.

Interpreting the direction in which a subject's eyes' darted was also in fashion for a time. If someone looks to the left, they are usually recalling something, to the right creating it. Upwards is a visual memory or creation, while to the side is auditory.

The problem with all of these techniques is that they are subject to interpretation. When I asked the subject if he witnessed the murder, he looked up and to the left, then to the right, and then answered "no, he was at his brother's house." Was he remembering the crime and then lying? Did he remember his friend who was the real killer, and then lie? Did he remember some other murder, and then visualize how I would react to him saying no?

Too many of these techniques end up being too similar to reading tea leaves. While often based on good research, e.g. people make micro expressions without being aware of it, interpreting what is going on in someone's mind based on these external indicators is still too unreliable to show probable cause someone committed a crime, much less proving them guilty.

At this point, all these are are tools. If you interview three possible suspects and one strongly shows deception with any one of these techniques, it might be a good idea to pay more of the investigative attention to that person.

In my opinion, the best techniques are still spending a long time building a rapport with the suspect and getting them to tell their story multiple times. In general the truth is easier to remember, people start to trip over their own lies and self contradict too often, and scripted lies are overly consistent in some key elements, but then inconsistent with things the suspect did not expect to be asked.
 
This is absolutely false. Everyone knows two is the liar's number.

Officer: "How much have you had to drink tonight?"
Driver: "Two beers."

:D

Saying "3 is a liar's number" is pretty asinine. That observation is wayyy too open to confirmation bias. That statement needs to be backed up with statistical analysis or it is worthless.

Just say it three times and it's true.
 
At this point, all these are are tools. If you interview three possible suspects and one strongly shows deception with any one of these techniques, it might be a good idea to pay more of the investigative attention to that person.

That sounds reasonable although I don't know enough to argue it one way or the other. And while anything can be taken to extremes, I think you'd have to be very cautious that you're not paying so much investigative attention to that person that you ignore things which may point to the guilt of the other(s), especially when that's the only thing pointing to the guilt of the first.
 
I found that the blood evidence in the case was a far more compelling reason to suspect Dr. MacDonald than any after-the-conviction dissection of his statements. It's really easy to say that a man's guilty after he's been convicted. To rely on this type of interpretation before the trial would just be foolish.

Just another author out to make a buck on an old but interesting case.
 
has statement analysis ever been tested?

I would envision taking a bunch of true and a bunch of false statements. Then giving them to people practicing statement analysis techniques and also given them to a control group of some sort. This sort of exercise has been done with respect to false confessions, with somewhat surprising results.
 
I would envision taking a bunch of true and a bunch of false statements. Then giving them to people practicing statement analysis techniques and also given them to a control group of some sort. This sort of exercise has been done with respect to false confessions, with somewhat surprising results.

And this is likely the reason that advocates of statement analysis insist that it doesn't work on written statements.

In all honesty, I feel that a persons phrasing of a statement could possibly indicate how truthful they're being, but I'd need to see it tested rigorously before I encouraged officers in the field to learn and use it.

I think what this thread demonstrates most clearly is that people in law enforcement seem to believe that they are much more adept at discerning the truthfulness of a statement than ordinary citizens are. I have never seen anything to back up that belief with fact. Clearly one of the things that raises a cops suspicion is a person asserting their right to remain silent and to have a lawyer present. I think THIS is actual cause for concern. Innocent people shouldn't do this? I beg to differ.
 

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