Evidence for why we know the New Testament writers told the truth.

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Also the Catholic Encyclopedia says the author of John was obviously a Jew who was speaking to a Gentile audience.
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Yes, and...? I'm sure there were any number of Jews in Palestine at the time. Some of them might even have decided to write to gentiles about Christianity. That doesn't prove that this author was the John.

Also the author of John knew highly detailed information about the geography of the area Jesus preached in. These factors support John being the author.
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Don't you think lots of people might have known about the geography of the area where Jesus preached? It's not like he circumnavigated the globe during his lifetime.
 
And did those feet, in ancient times,
Walk upon England's mountains green?
And was the holy Lamb of God
In England's pleaseant pastures seen?
And did that countenance divine
Shine out upon those clouded hills,
And was Jerusalem builded here
Among those dark, satanic mills?

On balance, I'd say probably not! :D

Rolfe.
 
Rolfe said:
And did those feet, in ancient times,
Walk upon England's mountains green?
And was the holy Lamb of God
In England's pleaseant pastures seen?
And did that countenance divine
Shine out upon those clouded hills,
And was Jerusalem builded here
Among those dark, satanic mills?

On balance, I'd say probably not! :D

Rolfe.
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Indeed, but that's the point - he's saying they didn't!
 
joobz said:
From what is clear now, Jesus was in love with a dude and therefore couldn't have possibly been doing it with Mary Magdalene.
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Or the adolescent John -- yes there was a good chance the youngest apostle (John) was a teenager while traveling with Jesus, looked up to Jesus as sort of a big brother.

And if Jesus was like you say, you would think he wouldn't have respect for and quote Moses, a man who had men killed for lying with other men.
 
Elizabeth I said:
Yes, and...? I'm sure there were any number of Jews in Palestine at the time. Some of them might even have decided to write to gentiles about Christianity. That doesn't prove that this author was the John.
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But John wasn't in Palestine, he was way up near Ephesus at the time, just like the author of Revelation.

ETA: From Wiki's article on Revelation:

The author of Revelation identifies himself several times as "John" (1:1, 4, 9; 22:8). The author also states that he was on the island of Patmos when he received his first vision (1:9; 4:1–2). As a result, the author of Revelation is referred to as John of Patmos. John explicitly addresses Revelation to seven churches of Asia Minor: Ephesus, Smyrna, Pergamos, Thyatira, Sardis, Philadelphia, and Laodicea (1:4, 11). All of these sites are located in what is now Turkey. The traditional view holds that John the Apostle—considered to have written the Gospel and epistles by the same name—was exiled on Patmos in the Aegean archipelago during the reign of Emperor Domitian, and wrote the Revelation there. Those in favor of a single common author point to similarities between the Gospel and Revelation. For example, both works are soteriological (e.g., referring to Jesus as a lamb) and possess a high Christology, stressing Jesus' divine side as opposed to the human side stressed by the Synoptic Gospels.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Book_of_Revelation



Don't you think lots of people might have known about the geography of the area where Jesus preached? It's not like he circumnavigated the globe during his lifetime.
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Not if they lived in Ephesus, which is in present day Turkey.
 
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DOC said:
Or the adolescent John -- yes there was a good chance the youngest apostle (John) was a teenager while traveling with Jesus, looked up to Jesus as sort of a big brother.

And if Jesus was like you say, you would think he wouldn't have respect for and quote Moses, a man who had men killed for lying with other men.
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We already know that putative Jesus re-interpreted large chunk of the Leviticus that had grown into obsolescence by the time of his preaching.



DOC said:
But John wasn't in Palestine, he was way up in Ephesus at the time, just like the author of Revelation.

Not if they lived in Ephesus, which is present day Turkey.
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After the destruction of Jerusalem, a lot of Jews fled to other cities from the Eastern Mediterranean. Anyone of this exiles could have been the writer, it does not have to be any of the twelve by any stretch.
And that's not mentioning the gentiles that travelled to Palestine for a reason or another, including the many Roman soldiers which had been stationed there at a time. After all, we know that early Christianity was heavily influenced by the cult of Mithra, and this cult was particularly prominent among legionaries.
 
DOC said:
Or the adolescent John -- yes there was a good chance the youngest apostle (John) was a teenager while traveling with Jesus, looked up to Jesus as sort of a big brother.
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So you are now saying that this beloved apostle was just a child.
Do you still claim that this Beloved apostle was the author of the Gospel? If so, are you claiming that this if John of Zebedee who you also claim is the author of the gospel?

DOC said:
And if Jesus was like you say, you would think he wouldn't have respect for and quote Moses, a man who had men killed for lying with other men.
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Do you have a quote of Jesus saying homosexuality is wrong?
 
joobz said:
Do you have a quote of Jesus saying homosexuality is wrong?
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I can't think of any (which doesn't mean there aren't any), but Paul had serious issues with anything relating to sex. His recommendation was that everyone avoid the opposite sex like the plague. He grudgingly admitted that it was better for people to get married if they couldn't keep it in their pants, but it was clearly a lesser of two evils in his mind.

And of course, none of this has anything to do with the hearsay known as the gospels...
 
Hokulele said:
I can't think of any (which doesn't mean there aren't any), but Paul had serious issues with anything relating to sex. His recommendation was that everyone avoid the opposite sex like the plague. He grudgingly admitted that it was better for people to get married if they couldn't keep it in their pants, but it was clearly a lesser of two evils in his mind.

And of course, none of this has anything to do with the hearsay known as the gospels...
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I can't remember of any. And I did read or hear several times people saying he never did condemn it.

Indeed, Mark has him saying: 'Nothing outside a man can make him 'unclean' by going into him. ' which is often taken has meaning food and other objects of ritual purity, but I'm sure one can extrapolate that to also be about penises...
 
Simon39759 said:
I can't remember of any. And I did read or hear several times people saying he never did condemn it.

Indeed, Mark has him saying: 'Nothing outside a man can make him 'unclean' by going into him. ' which is often taken has meaning food and other objects of ritual purity, but I'm sure one can extrapolate that to also be about penises...
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So you're saying that at worst, Jesus was down with the lesbians?
 
Hokulele said:
I can't think of any (which doesn't mean there aren't any), ..
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It's funny.
Jesus is supposedly against slavery, yet has given rules about how to handle slaves.

Jesus is supposedly against homosexuality, even though he didn't (most likely) speak against it.

I wonder what other things Jesus was against but never bothered to mention?
 
Abortions.
Sex in general.

If you want to be anachronistic (the God-man should be able to predict the future, wouldn't he?)
Feminism
Socialism/communism or liberalism.
Evolution
Whatever the Christian in question happens to be opposed to and lacking a secular argument against including civil rights in the 60ies; Jews in the 19th and first half of the 20th century and democracy in the 18th century.
 
I apologize for "popping up" from time to time without reading the whole damn thing: Any evidence yet? :boxedin:
 
There are no, as in none, zero, quotes of Jesus condemning homosexuality.

I can not 'prove' it in the literal sense, because that would entail reading the whole scripture from front to back and saying at each verse 'see, no quote on it'.

But basically, that *would* be the way to verify it.
 
realpaladin said:
There are no, as in none, zero, quotes of Jesus condemning homosexuality.

I can not 'prove' it in the literal sense, because that would entail reading the whole scripture from front to back and saying at each verse 'see, no quote on it'.

But basically, that *would* be the way to verify it.
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Nevermind the fact that Jesus was most likely himself, a homosexual.
 
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