Evidence for why we know the New Testament writers told the truth.

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Not to mention the fact that Matthew 8:21-22 shows Jesus in one of his more Jerky roles as family divider.

" 21And another of his disciples said unto him, Lord, suffer me first to go and bury my father.
22But Jesus said unto him, Follow me; and let the dead bury their dead."


Just for information. The dead would be buried before sunset the day they died. It would be understood by anyone listening that the man's father was not in fact dead - or even sick. He wasn't asking permission to go to his father's imminent funeral. He was saying, "yeah, I'll come and join you, some day, whenever, after my father has passed on."

It's not about family loyalties, it's about procrastinating decisions.

Rolfe.
 
Just for information. The dead would be buried before sunset the day they died. It would be understood by anyone listening that the man's father was not in fact dead - or even sick. He wasn't asking permission to go to his father's imminent funeral. He was saying, "yeah, I'll come and join you, some day, whenever, after my father has passed on."
Perhaps I'm being thick, but I don't see why that would be understood at all. Why should one assume the father isn't dead? Your comment regarding the burial customs doesn't seem to provide any justification for your assertion.


It's not about family loyalties, it's about procrastinating decisions.

Rolfe.
I disagree with this statement in part. It's part procrastination, but it is quite clearly about family seperation. Jesus made it clear that to follow him you must sever ties with those who are spiritually dead, even if they are family members.

Luke 9:59-62 is a repetition of this story and even goes one step further to say:
"And another also said, Lord, I will follow thee; but let me first go bid them farewell, which are at home at my house.

And Jesus said unto him, No man, having put his hand to the plough, and looking back, is fit for the kingdom of God. "
 
Again, it seems to me that the last line you quote makes exactly the point I was making.

Rolfe.
 
Again, it seems to me that the last line you quote makes exactly the point I was making.

Rolfe.
if you say so.....


ETA: And the two lines I quoted make exactly the point I was making.
 
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Umm, yeah. Sure.

Or, the vast majority of the gospel of John is simply hearsay.

Oh so what exactly are you saying here?

I myself know without a doubt the Bible is true, especially John 3:16 "For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son that whom so ever believes in him shall not perish but will have eternal life."
 
I myself know without a doubt the Bible is true, especially John 3:16 "For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son that whom so ever believes in him shall not perish but will have eternal life."
No you believe it to be true, just like my daughter knows there is a Santa Claus. You are both too immature to understand that getting an occasional 'gift' is not evidence of a superbeing.
 
Oh so what exactly are you saying here?


I am saying that there is strong evidence that the author of the gospel of John was not an eyewitness to Jesus' antics.

I myself know without a doubt the Bible is true, especially John 3:16 "For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son that whom so ever believes in him shall not perish but will have eternal life."


Have you read anything by Philo of Alexandria? He was a Jew from close to the time ascribed to Jesus' life. A very large part of the gospel of John is clearly based on Philo's writings.

Including the roots of what you quoted here...
 
I am saying that there is strong evidence that the author of the gospel of John was not an eyewitness to Jesus' antics.

And this site says there is strong evidence that he was.

http://www.abu.nb.ca/courses/NTIntro/John.htm

Also the Catholic Encyclopedia says the author of John was obviously a Jew who was speaking to a Gentile audience. Also the author of John knew highly detailed information about the geography of the area Jesus preached in. These factors support John being the author.

Also any grammar problems could have been caused if John transcribed his gospel to a third party. He was the bishop of Ephesus, it would certainly be possible for a bishop of a big city to have a transcriber. And as I said before John might never had taken a grammar class; or speaking in third person was just his style.
 
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Also the Catholic Encyclopedia says the author of John was obviously a Jew who was speaking to a Gentile audience.
Were there no Jews after Jesus died ?
Also the author of John knew highly detailed information about the geography of the area Jesus preached in.
How many people do you think would have known the geography of the area the Jesus fable was set in?
 
or speaking in third person was just his style.

Megalomania now?
No, Doc suggested earlier that it is a sign that John and Jesus were lovers.



Doc.

You keep referring to the “fact” that the writer of John knew the area as if it is important and suggest that this proves that the author had to be Jesus's eponymous lover.

If the geographic descriptions of a historical story appears credible it does not mean it was written at the time. The author of John is just like any other historical novelists and has tried to get the locations accurate.

A story set in Rome could accurately describe the location size and shape of the 7 hills. That would be true for a novel set in 100BCE; 500CE or 2500CE, and it would be true whether the story was written in 2000 years ago or today.
 
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Oh so what exactly are you saying here?

I myself know without a doubt the Bible is true, especially John 3:16 "For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son that whom so ever believes in him shall not perish but will have eternal life."

Oh so what exactly are you saying here?

I myself know without a doubt the Bible is false, especially John 3:16 "For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son that whom so ever believes in him shall not perish but will have eternal life."
 
Oh so what exactly are you saying here?

I myself know without a doubt the Bible is true, especially John 3:16 "For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son that whom so ever believes in him shall not perish but will have eternal life."


Kathy, you do not understand because you have not been touched by His noodly appendage.

You have Pasta, yet you cannot see.



In case you miss the point of this, Kathy, that's what your preaching sounds like to us.
 
Again, it seems to me that the last line you quote makes exactly the point I was making.

Rolfe.
FYI to everyone,
I took this debate to the "spiritual literacy" thread. I was interested in hearing a bit more abuot it and thought this thread was not a good place for it.
 
And this site says there is strong evidence that he was.


And that site is yet another lovely example of circular reasoning. "I think it says it is so it must be so!"

The leading scholar on this gospel (Robert Kysar) has this to say about it in his book John, the Maverick Gospel.

Robert Kysar said:
Critical scholarship has correctly called into question the traditional association of the Fourth Evangelist [ed. - the author of the gospel] with John, the son of Zebedee, known from the Synoptic Gospels. I doubt, too, that we can identify the Evangelist with the mysterious "disciple whom Jesus loved" (although many do not share my skepticism on this matter). All we have to go on is the document itself, and only so much can legitimately be read between its lines. We have tried to describe the background of the author that so well suited him or her for the task of writing this Gospel. Moreover, we have claimed that the tradition available to the Fourth Evangelist was rich and full. To claim more than this about the writer would be to venture unnecessarily far out on the limb of speculation. To deny the possibility that this author was a woman is unfair and betrays the prejudice of previous centuries. (See Appendix B, "The Women of the Gospel of John," for a brief defense of the possibility that the Fourth Evangelist was indeed a woman.)


My bolding.
 
And this site says there is strong evidence that he was.

http://www.abu.nb.ca/courses/NTIntro/John.htm

Also the Catholic Encyclopedia says the author of John was obviously a Jew who was speaking to a Gentile audience. Also the author of John knew highly detailed information about the geography of the area Jesus preached in. These factors support John being the author.

Also any grammar problems could have been caused if John transcribed his gospel to a third party. He was the bishop of Ephesus, it would certainly be possible for a bishop of a big city to have a transcriber. And as I said before John might never had taken a grammar class; or speaking in third person was just his style.
Actually, DOC, that website helped prove that the DaVinci code is complete nonsense.

From what is clear now, Jesus was in love with a dude and therefore couldn't have possibly been doing it with Mary Magdalene.
 
Or maybe Jesus was banging all of his followers.
It's not uncommon behaviour for cult leaders and that'd explain why the apostles were all jealous when Jesus kissed Magdalena on the [mouth]...
 
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