• Quick note - the problem with Youtube videos not embedding on the forum appears to have been fixed, thanks to ZiprHead. If you do still see problems let me know.

Scientology Exposé from the St Petersburg Times

It would seem so. His posts sort of remind me of the 9/11 twoofies except that he uses grammar and spelling better.
 
Audible Click said:
It would seem so. His posts sort of remind me of the 9/11 twoofies except that he uses grammar and spelling better.
Click to expand...

I also wonder how he would react to the knowledge that Hubbard was on psychotropic medications when he passed?

This is a whole lot more insidious than the Truthers, IMNSHO.

By-and-large truthers are disaffected angry young men striving to pin something on "the man" that they think will fix their world and make them feel whole.

This is a murderous cult based on a SciFi story and founded by a confidence man (and a very, very bad SciFi writer.) It uses brainwashing techniques to create a dependency on those very techniques. It's like a 24/7 S&M relationship but without the whips, chains, and orgasms.
 
You're so right. I've been aware of Scientology in a superficial way for many years. I knew it was a cult but until reading the article I didn't realize how pervasive a cult it is. This sort of thing is why I enjoy JREF so much. It makes me think and explore topics that I probably never would have given serious thought to.
 
Audible Click said:
You're so right. I've been aware of Scientology in a superficial way for many years. I knew it was a cult but until reading the article I didn't realize how pervasive a cult it is. This sort of thing is why I enjoy JREF so much. It makes me think and explore topics that I probably never would have given serious thought to.
Click to expand...

Oh, I have been aware of their baleful influence on people most of these last 50 years. Any questions you have about it, ask me, and if I don't know, I'll find out for you.

I have had lunch with a guy who was there when Hubbard said that to get rich you had to start a religion...
 
Thank you. I may take you up on your offer. As to what Hubbard said, he hit the nail on the head with that comment. Ah..I thought of a question. Why do you think people like John Travolta and Tom Cruise become Scientologists? I must go to bed now but I'll look for your answer tomorrow.
 
fredcarr said:
I've never felt that way. (I suppose its possible some do.) I do feel like a slave though here in America. But that's to an economic system that I don't have a lot of control over. Gotta feed the kids and all that. I wonder what its like sometimes to live in a country not so seeped in materialism?

Some friends were talking to some Russians (Scientologists) about their lifestyle. INteresting points were made about how spiritual their culture was. Since they didn't have a lot of the things we (Americans) take for granted they did a lot of talking and getting together, etc. Conversing about life, philosophy and such things was normal. I don't hear that to much nowadays. heck you could probably get fired for talking about such things in the modern day work place. (I exagerate a bit)

I have no clue what you mean by a martydom view. (matrydom - the suffering of death on account of adherence to a cause and especially to one's religious faith) Not sure the context your using this word in.

My wife is Mormon and I haven't observer that in her or our friends, family or neighbors.
Click to expand...
I should have said persecution complex. I appologize. And I've no idea of the statistics. Let's assume for the sake of argument that it is 1%. You would agree that it is 1% too much, right? Have you read stories of people who have had difficulty leaving the church? People who have lost contact with family and freinds?

As to the persecution complex, why are people who leave and are critical of the church described in the most extreme terms? Why are so many people who leave critical? There are a lot of organizations in this world. It would seem that Scientology is especially targeted. If there are so many benifits why are there so many unappy people? You can't please everyone. I know of people who have complained about the free services they recieved from Extreme Makeover the Home Edition. But this seems far and away above that. There is something very palpable in people's feeling of fear and dread and the sadness of those who have forever lost loved ones.
 
Last edited:
fredcarr said:
lol! Your persistent. Really working the fraud angle. Try reading the book first. wikipedia? Are you serious??

btw - The benefits are far greater than those blurbs say.

Like I said you free to find out for yourself if its a fraud. If you haven't already made up your mind that is.
Click to expand...
In all honesty it scares the hell out of me. I wouldn't go near it with a 10 foot pole. Leaving Mormonism and the crap I have to deal with that is bad enough.

As for benifits can you provide any evidentiary data?
 
Another concern I have: The price. Everyone who leaves Scientology complains about the expense. It is so expensive (FTR so is Mormonism which expects 10% of an individuals gross earnings).

Why? Why not simply cover the expenses and perhaps a small profit? This is why I don't think it deserves a tax exemption. It's not as if it doesn't believe that there is a capital value to it's product and so it feels justified to profit hansomly on that product. Ok, fine, pay taxes. Or, help people without emptying their bank accounts.
 
Fred, you seem to be very defensive, as if the JREF posters here are only here to attack your "religion." However, I believe that many here really want you to wake up and see Scientology for what it is. WAKE UP! You can have a better life if you get away from Scientology, you can have a better financial outlook as well (unless you're a top executive, in which case I'd have to say you need to realize you're conning people)
 
I just wanted to make an observation. A common thing for scientology-related threads is for a scientologist or someone who claims to not be one (but will support it anyway) to come in, and either change the subject, or make claims that need to be responded to, and thus the discussion gets diverted from the original intent of the thread.

That may have not been the intention of FredCarr...I am not that familiar with the poster. But I have seen it frequently, so just wanted to give out a reminder.
Doesn't mean the discussion is uninteresting. But something to remember.


That being said, the third and final part of the series is up.
Entitled "Part Three: Ecclesiastical justice"

Davis, who succeeded Rinder as church spokesman, said the term "seance'' is not used in Scientology and Miscavige never encouraged violence. But it's not surprising that Rathbun attacked Rinder, Davis said, because Rathbun physically attacked other managers all the time.
Click to expand...

This is part of Tommy Davis (spokesperson for scientology) defending Miscavige from the accounts of Mark Rathbun saying he was beaten by Miscavige. Davis claims Rathbun was the one who did the beatings, over 50 times. Which is a stupid defense tactic. Davis has essentially admitted they had an upper level person beating people up and did nothing to stop it.


Great series. And has spread all over the web.
 
BenBurch said:
I also wonder how he would react to the knowledge that Hubbard was on psychotropic medications when he passed?

This is a whole lot more insidious than the Truthers, IMNSHO.

By-and-large truthers are disaffected angry young men striving to pin something on "the man" that they think will fix their world and make them feel whole.

This is a murderous cult based on a SciFi story and founded by a confidence man (and a very, very bad SciFi writer.) It uses brainwashing techniques to create a dependency on those very techniques. It's like a 24/7 S&M relationship but without the whips, chains, and orgasms.
Click to expand...

Bolding added.

Someone called?

Is that why I keep feeling these sharp jabbing pains?

Truthers vs. Scientologists, now that’s a throw down you might be able to sell tickets to. For all the time, energy and effort expended by truthers for what ever reasons, why not put that effort to something worth fighting and exposing like say “a murderous cult based on a SciFi story and founded by a confidence man (and a very, very bad SciFi writer.)”? If not for the people harmed, killed, enslaved and threatened, then just for the fact that it’s an extremely lame SciFi story (it’s even lame just as far as religious stories go).
 
RandFan said:
Another concern I have: The price. Everyone who leaves Scientology complains about the expense. It is so expensive (FTR so is Mormonism which expects 10% of an individuals gross earnings).

Why? Why not simply cover the expenses and perhaps a small profit? This is why I don't think it deserves a tax exemption. It's not as if it doesn't believe that there is a capital value to it's product and so it feels justified to profit hansomly on that product. Ok, fine, pay taxes. Or, help people without emptying their bank accounts.
Click to expand...

That's just it, and it makes statements like Fred's, that you're "free to find out for yourself if it's a fraud", so ironic - because free has nothing to do with it. You'll actually need to spend several thousand dollars in order to find out for yourself if it's a fraud. Or volunteer for something resembling indenture. If you choose the latter, though, make sure you don't have a bad day - don't want to make "enemy" status.
 
The Man said:
Bolding added.

Someone called?

Is that why I keep feeling these sharp jabbing pains?

Truthers vs. Scientologists, now that’s a throw down you might be able to sell tickets to. For all the time, energy and effort expended by truthers for what ever reasons, why not put that effort to something worth fighting and exposing like say “a murderous cult based on a SciFi story and founded by a confidence man (and a very, very bad SciFi writer.)”? If not for the people harmed, killed, enslaved and threatened, then just for the fact that it’s an extremely lame SciFi story (it’s even lame just as far as religious stories go).
Click to expand...

Because they don't come here and try to defend themselves? (Fred is clearly here to recruit, not defend.)

Plus its just not the case that most sane, intelligent, thinking people (which excludes Oprah) need to have Scientology debunked, or need to be convinced that that anything they are associated with needs to be boycotted.

But yeah, I've decided that I am going to spend some of my time telling people about these guys from here on out.

They need to be stopped.

They are a threat to the country. A threat to ANY country they operate in.
 
Since I must be on Fred's ignore list as he never addresses me directly (sniff) and everyone else here is doing such a good job, I think I'll just lurk in this thread for now.

Oh. And Fred. Show me a Clear.
 
For what it's work I'm listening to the Jason Beghe interview over at operation Clambake. Jason is a prolific actor and former level V Scientologist. It's amazing how the folks that leave Scientologist have such incredibly similar stories with many of the same complaints.

Jason does not at all come off as simply disgruntled as there is too much information. Too much detail.
 
It's interesting that most of these people left Scientology, not because they took a critical look at the absurd claims, but because of mistreatment by the cult leaders. Many of the ex-scientologists still believe L. Ron's sci-fi religious claims.
 
Engaging in discussion with fred is a dead end, really. He will happily give the feel-good, public-relations view of Scientology, but he refuses to respond to or even acknowledge any criticism of the Church or its practices.

He claims Lisa Macpherson was a friend of his, but won't talk about how she died.
He'll talk about how Scientology leads to "understanding," but won't address the claims of superhuman powers made by Hubbard.
He'll encourage people to read the Church's PR material, but won't comment on the (now-officially-acknowledged) Xenu mythos.


Talking to fred about Scientology is like trying to have a conversation with a pamphlet.
 
I reckon one must be in pretty deep before one is allowed on to the interwebs to spread the "good news."
 
BenBurch said:
Because they don't come here and try to defend themselves? (Fred is clearly here to recruit, not defend.)

Plus its just not the case that most sane, intelligent, thinking people (which excludes Oprah) need to have Scientology debunked, or need to be convinced that that anything they are associated with needs to be boycotted.

But yeah, I've decided that I am going to spend some of my time telling people about these guys from here on out.

They need to be stopped.

They are a threat to the country. A threat to ANY country they operate in.
Click to expand...

Well if I recollect correctly that was part of LRH’s strategy, if you are defending you have already lost, you must always attack and be on the offensive.

I agree completly that most people are already well aware of this cult, yet I guess they still find recruits.

I certainly applaud your commitment to taking a greater effort at informing others and will likewise spend more time addressing such a sham, even as far as religions go.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Back
Top Bottom