• Quick note - the problem with Youtube videos not embedding on the forum appears to have been fixed, thanks to ZiprHead. If you do still see problems let me know.

Scientology Exposé from the St Petersburg Times

Hey Fred,

I've a lot of concerns. I think there has been too much that has come out that is nearly impossible to put the toothpaste back in the tube.

In any event, my concerns center around loss of freedom many feel and they feel they can't do anything about it. To make a break will cause them to lose family relations and will result in animosity and stress greater than what they are feeling now.

I've a little bit of understanding of that given I left the Mormon church and there is some similarity in that both churches truly take a martyrdom view.

There was a time when I honestly thought that one could not be a slave in America. If what I've heard from many, many stories of people who have left the church and many who won't leave for fear of what will happen then there are many slaves in America.
 
fredcarr said:
Re Engrams: (Defined as a moment of pain and unconsciousness recorded in a persons mind) Its easy enough for one to determine if they exist or not. Study up on Dianetics and apply it and see if it works. If after doing so you decide its bunk then so be it.
Click to expand...

How much will that cost?
 
Hey Fred,

I've a lot of concerns. I think there has been too much that has come out that is nearly impossible to put the toothpaste back in the tube.

In any event, my concerns center around loss of freedom many feel and they feel they can't do anything about it. To make a break will cause them to lose family relations and will result in animosity and stress greater than what they are feeling now.

I've a little bit of understanding of that given I left the Mormon church and there is some similarity in that both churches truly take a martyrdom view.

There was a time when I honestly thought that one could not be a slave in America. If what I've heard from many, many stories of people who have left the church and many who won't leave for fear of what will happen then there are many slaves in America.
Click to expand...
I've never felt that way. (I suppose its possible some do.) I do feel like a slave though here in America. But that's to an economic system that I don't have a lot of control over. Gotta feed the kids and all that. I wonder what its like sometimes to live in a country not so seeped in materialism?

Some friends were talking to some Russians (Scientologists) about their lifestyle. INteresting points were made about how spiritual their culture was. Since they didn't have a lot of the things we (Americans) take for granted they did a lot of talking and getting together, etc. Conversing about life, philosophy and such things was normal. I don't hear that to much nowadays. heck you could probably get fired for talking about such things in the modern day work place. (I exagerate a bit)

I have no clue what you mean by a martydom view. (matrydom - the suffering of death on account of adherence to a cause and especially to one's religious faith) Not sure the context your using this word in.

My wife is Mormon and I haven't observer that in her or our friends, family or neighbors.
 
Last edited:
How much will that cost?
Click to expand...

About the price of a book. If your really destitute check the book out at a library. Of course the real cost will be the time and effort you have to put into it.
 
Dianetics sets forth the non-germ theory of disease, embracing, it has been estimated by competent physicians, the explanation of some seventy percent of man's pathology.
– L. Ron Hubbard, Dianetics: The Evolution of a Science
Click to expand...

OK, now I'm convinced. These articles are interesting:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dianetics#Scientific_evaluation_and_criticisms
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dianetics:_The_Modern_Science_of_Mental_Health

From the second link:
Dianetics purports to reveal revolutionary discoveries about the source of psychosomatic illness, neuroses and other mental ailments, as well as an exact, infallible way of permanently curing them.[3] Hubbard divides the human mind into an "analytic mind" which supposedly functions perfectly, and a "reactive mind" which is incapable of thinking or making distinctions. When the analytic mind is unconscious, the reactive mind physically records memories called "engrams". Misinterpretation of these engrams by the reactive mind cause damage later in life. By a process called "Dianetic auditing", the book promises, people can achieve a superhuman state called "Clear" with superior IQ, morally pure intentions and greatly improved mental and physical health. In August 1950, Hubbard predicted that Clears would become the world's new aristocracy, although he admitted that he had not achieved the state himself.[3]
Click to expand...

And from the first link:
The benefits of going Clear, according to Hubbard, were dramatic. A Clear would have no compulsions, repressions, psychoses or neuroses, and would enjoy a near-perfect memory as well as a rise in IQ of as much as 50 points.
Click to expand...

That would be pretty simple to prove. If true, it makes quite a case for Dianetics and LRH; if not true, isn't this fraud?
 
That would be pretty simple to prove. If true, it makes quite a case for Dianetics and LRH; if not true, isn't this fraud?
Click to expand...

lol! Your persistent. Really working the fraud angle. Try reading the book first. wikipedia? Are you serious??

btw - The benefits are far greater than those blurbs say.

Like I said you free to find out for yourself if its a fraud. If you haven't already made up your mind that is.
 
Fred,

the fact that you will not, or are physically afraid to address issues like Xenu and RS2-45 are what show the whole world that it IS a fraud. Have you ever surfed over to xenu.net? What do you think of what you read there?

-Ben
 
fredcarr said:
lol! Your persistent. Really working the fraud angle. Try reading the book first. wikipedia? Are you serious??

btw - The benefits are far greater than those blurbs say.

Like I said you free to find out for yourself if its a fraud. If you haven't already made up your mind that is.
Click to expand...

Fred: I guess we can agree to disagree then. Still, I appreciate your willingness to discuss this. And by the way, I did read Dianetics first, before looking at those Wikipedia articles (if you see any incorrect info on those links, let me know). I have a 1950 edition. In it Hubbard claims that Dianetics cures various illnesses and raises IQ. I am willing to give this a fair chance--if evidence backs this up, I'm all for it. If not, I don't see how it's not fraudulent to charge money for Dianetics services that don't do what LRH claimed.

I think it would greatly help the cause of Scientology, to show evidence for claims made. Raised IQ and near perfect memory would be pretty easy to verify.
 
I think it would greatly help the cause of Scientology, to show evidence for claims made. Raised IQ and near perfect memory would be pretty easy to verify.
Click to expand...
I see lots of people all the time that make claims to have gotten various benefits like that from Dianetics. I don't have my copy with me. I'm pretty sure it says in the front cover, of my edition, that it is not a statement of claims made by the author but a record of Mr. Hubbard's observations, etc. (I don't know what it says in a 1950 edition.)

In every church in the reception area there is a notice to the effect that if you came here to be cured of some physical ailment or mental illness then go see a doctor, etc. (Ron covers this in many references.)

I've always seen it made very clear that this subject is for spiritual gain. (Kind of my point all along.) I have seen other gains made but who really knows what caused that.

In fact it is policy to not make such promises like you will get cured of you neuroses, etc. If I were to observe someone doing something like that I'd correct them on the spot.

Having said all that, you should try auditing someone with an intention to help them out. I could recommend a more gradient approach as running engrams is a bit steep for some. Self-Analysis is a great start and has done wonders for the people I have worked with in using it.

Couldn't hurt to give it the old college try. You'd sure know a lot more about the subject after auditing someone through a traumatic experience. Heck you might even cheer someone up. (Or not!)

gotta go to bed.
 
But Fred? Dianetics was made up for publication in the pulp rag "Astounding Science Fiction."

Its not a science.

Its not even an art.

But people can convince themselves that they are being helped by things that are actually very bad for them and for others.

Have you even read that St. Petersburg Times article series?

No?

Because they will not let you?
 
astounding.jpg


It's a tomato.

hubbardemeter.jpg
 
I found this online book by Margery Wakefield about her experience in Scientology curiously compelling. I have been a little surprised that the Scientologists haven't infiltrated the 9-11 Truth Movement (unlike the LaRouchees), but now I realize what a cash cow they've created with those courses. Scary stuff.
 
Brainster said:
I found this online book by Margery Wakefield about her experience in Scientology curiously compelling. I have been a little surprised that the Scientologists haven't infiltrated the 9-11 Truth Movement (unlike the LaRouchees), but now I realize what a cash cow they've created with those courses. Scary stuff.
Click to expand...

Oh, thanks for the link.

BTW, I am reading that Scientologists in their compounds cannot even read sites like this because they are all required to have web filters on their computers and can only see Scientology-approved web content...
 
Hi fred! Guess what time it is...

How do you feel knowing that your self-professed "friend," Lisa McPherson, died from dehydration, her body covered with sores and insect bites, during her "introspection rundown" at the Fort Harrison Hotel?

I'm still waiting for an answer...
 
Last edited:
BenBurch said:
Fred,

the fact that you will not, or are physically afraid to address issues like Xenu and RS2-45 are what show the whole world that it IS a fraud. Have you ever surfed over to xenu.net? What do you think of what you read there?

-Ben
Click to expand...

I may have missed it but did he ever answer these questions?
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Back
Top Bottom