Parents Think Boy Is Reincarnated Pilot

[Marduk]

Take a deep calming breath. Now please go back and read post #178. Note the word, reincarnation, is not in the post.

ok I see, you got caught out and are now bending the truth to cover yourself, ok fair enough

why don't you go and read every other one of your posts when you were asking me for evidence of reincarnation, just to reiterate at no time under any circumstances have I said anything about reincarnation, you have been saying I did the whole way through.
post 165 perhaps

You made a claim. The claim was that you thought there was possible evidence for reincarnation. You have provided no evidence supporting this claim.

And you accuse me of denial without knowing the details?

Produce the evidence Marduk.

demanding I produce evidence for something I don't believe in and have not even commented on is really not going to get you anywhere is it

 

[Marduk]

Finally, a discussion emerges.

Instinct and memory are distinctly different. Your rationale which you claim "proves" instinct is memory driven is faulty.

Here are some links to the neurobiological aspects of each demonstrating the difference.

Cognitive Psychology and Cognitive Neuroscience/Memory, an online textbook

Johns Hopkins Neuroscientists Watch Memories Form In Real Time

THE COGNITIVE NEUROSCIENCE OF MEMORY

Instinct, from Wiki

Epic fail, your first three links don't even mention instinct and your last supports my position

 

[Marduk]

AFAIAA there's no credible evidence and no known mechanism for such a thing. But there are good models for instinctive behaviour and known epigenetic phenomena.

No. Instincts are only past life group memories in the sense that DNA is a group memory. They are inherited behaviours resulting from natural selection, individual memory is not relevant.

No - there is no 'new instinct' (if by 'instinct' you mean the popular idea of a fixed action pattern that is unlearned and inherited). Instincts in this sense have nothing to do with individual memory. Foxes is a continuously evolving creature, as are rabbits - if they are both in the same environment and one preys on the other they will have co-evolved from the earliest ancestors in that relationship, and their behaviours will have co-evolved too. The rabbit's responses to a fox will typically be the responses evolved by generations of rabbits that have survived predation by predators like foxes. If they behave a certain way and survive, the genetic components of that behaviour can pass to their progeny.

It's obviously possible that an grandparent heard the story.
It doesn't follow at all that the story could be passed genetically to offspring. There are no known or possible mechanisms for such individual memories to be encoded in genetic material, and no known or possible mechanism for them to be decoded from genetic material into equivalent memories in the child - and there's no good reason why such mechanisms might be present (have evolved). Occam's Razor applies.

Speculating wildly, consider the situation if it was possible - many (all?) children would 'inherit' such memories - so many (all?) people would be swamped with the memories of stories heard by their parents and ancestors that they believed to be their own...

I wasn't discussing any information you posted, other than simply pointing out that the explanation you gave for your original statement "I do think there are genuine cases of people having past life memories" was not credible to a reasonable reader. I don't know why you explained it that way, rather than admitting it was a mistake, or defending it as written, but you did. It was sufficiently absurd for me to add my opinion of it to the other similar opinions.

If you think it was rude to point out how absurd your explanation sounded, that's your prerogative.

again this is unqualified opinion based on your beliefs
not valid I'm afraid, please support your claims with relevant links

 

[Skeptic Ginger]

ok I see, you got caught out and are now bending the truth to cover yourself, ok fair enough

why don't you go and read every other one of your posts when you were asking me for evidence of reincarnation, just to reiterate at no time under any circumstances have I said anything about reincarnation, you have been saying I did the whole way through.
post 165 perhaps


demanding I produce evidence for something I don't believe in and have not even commented on is really not going to get you anywhere is it

Last time, as it appears you are blocking the facts from your reality.

What you first posted about memory was interpreted as meaning reincarnation by me and others on the thread. How was anyone to know you held a belief based on a false premise that memory and instinct are the same when the rest of us do not hold that premise to be correct?

But now that it is clear what the problem is, I see my question asking you for evidence is no longer relative.

On to the discussion about your underlying false premise.

 

[Skeptic Ginger]

Epic fail, your first three links don't even mention instinct and your last supports my position

Come on Marduk, you cannot possibly be that dense.

The neurobiology of memory and instinct are as different as night and day. They are not the same.

 

[Marduk]

Come on Marduk, you cannot possibly be that dense.

The neurobiology of memory and instinct are as different as night and day. They are not the same.

ok so do you have a link that says that instinct is not a function of memory in the hippocampus or not, I have already posted links that says it is.

It can't be too hard to find someone capable of discussing something without parrotting their beliefs instead of some facts can it ?

I'm not interested in what you don't believe in, I'm interested in reality
thanks

 

[Marduk]

Last time, as it appears you are blocking the facts from your reality.

nope, actually youre the one in denial

What you first posted about memory was interpreted as meaning reincarnation by me and others on the thread.

I said nothing about reincarnation, what you assume is not my responsibility

How was anyone to know you held a belief based on a false premise that memory and instinct are the same when the rest of us do not hold that premise to be correct?

funnily enough then that just disqualifies you from making any salient comment, the fact that you don't believe what science accepts is your issue, not mine

But now that it is clear what the problem is, I see my question asking you for evidence is no longer relative.

I have yet to see you post anything in this thread that is relative or even relevant

On to the discussion about your underlying false premise.

ah ok, this will be the false premise that is backed up by science then will it and which despite a number of days to formulate a reply you havent even addressed yet ?

 

[RichardR]

my opinion is backed by the facts that I have posted and linked to, denying the truth of them isn't doing anyone any favours. I'm really not interested in peoples unqualified opinions unless they are at least based on supporting evidence

thanks

You've got nothing then?

 

[Marduk]

You've got nothing then?

apparently I have no one capable of accepting that instinct is controlled by the hippocampus apart from neuro scientists whos experiments have proved it, I guess I'll just have to live with that

thanks

 

[Skeptic Ginger]

ok so do you have a link that says that instinct is not a function of memory in the hippocampus or not, I have already posted links that says it is.

It can't be too hard to find someone capable of discussing something without parrotting their beliefs instead of some facts can it ?

I'm not interested in what you don't believe in, I'm interested in reality
thanks

I posted links describing the underlying neurobiological mechanisms of both instinct and memory which demonstrated the two were not the same. In addition, one link specifically pointed out instinct was not a function of memory. That's the link you think proved your point.

From the Wiki link on Instinct that you claim proves your point that memory and instinct are the same. (emphasis mine)

Instinctual actions - in contrast to actions based on learning which are served by memory and which provide individually stored successful reactions built upon experience - have no learning curve, they are hard-wired and ready to use without learning, but do depend on maturational processes to appear.

The hippocampus plays a role in establishing long term memory. But that doesn't make everything it does the equivalent of memory. My legs play a role in walking but walking is not defined as legs.

 

[Skeptic Ginger]

apparently I have no one capable of accepting that instinct is controlled by the hippocampus apart from neuro scientists whos experiments have proved it, I guess I'll just have to live with that

thanks

Instinct is controlled by genetics.

The hippocampus plays a role in long term memory. It plays a role in some physical movements considered to be instinctual. It has additional functions.

The gut plays a role in digestion. The gut is not defined as digestion.
Muscles are involved in movement. Muscles are not defined as movement.

 

[Skeptic Ginger]

nope, actually youre the one in denial

I said nothing about reincarnation, what you assume is not my responsibility

funnily enough then that just disqualifies you from making any salient comment, the fact that you don't believe what science accepts is your issue, not mine

I have yet to see you post anything in this thread that is relative or even relevant

ah ok, this will be the false premise that is backed up by science then will it and which despite a number of days to formulate a reply you havent even addressed yet ?

Sigh...I did say I was done with this but I'll try one more time anyway.

Reinactment:

Marduk: "I do think there are genuine cases of people having past life memories."
(the rest is prarphrased)
Skep: Evidence please.
Marduk: Past life memories are expressed in instinctual behavior.
Skep: OK, I see you are talking about something else.

That's it, Marduk. That's what underlies your whole conspiracy theory in a nutshell.

 

[Sean84]

I retract any semblance of an apology and encourage you to: dismiss as troll.

 

[Marduk]

Instinct is controlled by genetics.

The hippocampus plays a role in long term memory. It plays a role in some physical movements considered to be instinctual. It has additional functions.

and those additional functions, any of them that aren't involved with memory ?

The gut plays a role in digestion. The gut is not defined as digestion.
Muscles are involved in movement. Muscles are not defined as movement.

thats a ridiculous comparison, like saying the brain is involved with thinking but the brain itself is not a thought, really clutching at straws, do you have anything productive to say at all or do you just want to admit that previous to my comment you knew zilch about what the Hippocampus is or does and in your attempt to be sceptical still don't. really you should rename yourself pseudo-sceptic girl,

 

[Marduk]

I retract any semblance of an apology and encourage you to: dismiss as troll.

thanks for that, do you actually have anything to add the the topic because I'm starting to get bored reporting all your posts to the mod team ?

 

[Marduk]

Sigh...I did say I was done with this but I'll try one more time anyway.

Reinactment:

Marduk: "I do think there are genuine cases of people having past life memories."
(the rest is prarphrased)
Skep: Evidence please.
Marduk: Past life memories are expressed in instinctual behavior.
Skep: OK, I see you are talking about something else.

That's it, Marduk. That's what underlies your whole conspiracy theory in a nutshell.

who am I conspiring with, really go get yourself a dictionary and look the word up, then you'll know how to use it properly

 

[catbasket]

Just dropping in here to say that I know Marduk pretty well, and he's definitely not a troll. [snip]

Seriously?
Do you have any evidence for that?

 

[Marduk]

Seriously?
Do you have any evidence for that?

sure

Troll definition
In Internet slang, a troll is someone who posts controversial, inflammatory, irrelevant, or off-topic messages in an online community

I originally had no intention of going into detail about the Hippocampus and only expanded on my comments after repeated attacks
my comments about the Hippocampus are relevant to this thread as they involve its memory functions and this thread is about memory
There is nothing controversial in stating that the Hippocampus is the centre for memory and instinct

so how am I qualified to be a troll, your post being deliberately inflammatory qualifies you, are you trying to recruit me for your troll club ?
if so I'm not interested thankyou
now why don't you scuttle off back under your bridge

 

[Ysidro]

Just dropping in here to say that I know Marduk pretty well, and he's definitely not a troll. I have learnt a lot from him over the past five or so years.

Given his statements and attitude in this thread, I find that very hard to believe.

 

[Marduk]

Given his statements and attitude in this thread, I find that very hard to believe.

my attitude to being attacked by trolls for a comment which the attacker didn't understand is bad ?

so sue me