ACTA Treaty: Opinions

Okay, first of all, treaties are not usually secret; treaty negotiations are secret. Once the negotiations have concluded, the finalized treaty draft is made public, so it can be ratified by the legislature.

Second, you still haven't actually addressed my concern in Post #106:
theprestige said:
Do you have any information you'd like to share with us, that would encourage us to take your possibility more seriously than other possibilities?
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Unless you can answer this question in the affirmative, and follow it up with actual concrete information, we're at an impasse, and there's nothing more to discuss.

In that case, please feel free to let this thread die a natural death, rather than bumping it with inane requests to discuss something for which you are unable to provide any substance worthy of discussion.
 
How could it undermine the constitution?

Well among other things it would give the government enormous power to monitor the internet without warrant which would be a violation of the 4th Amendment's right against unreasonable search and seizure, and need for probable cause.


INRM
 
Six7's,

Do you think the government should be given enormous power to eavesdrop like big-brother and monitor the internet without warrant?


INRM
 
INRM said:
Six7's,

Do you think the government should be given enormous power to eavesdrop like big-brother and monitor the internet without warrant?


INRM
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I'm not 6 sevens, but personally, yes. Absolutely the government should have this power. I think the Internet changes everything, and that we're only at the beginning of a new age of commerce, education, and warfare. And so just as I think the government should be given enormous power to wage conventional war on a massive scale when necessary, I think that the government should be given enormous power to wage information war on a massive scale.

Not only that, but just as I think the government powers to wage conventional war should be strictly regulated and closely supervised, I think that the government powers to wage information war should also be strictly regulated and closely supervised.

I mean, if the government doesn't have the power to get the job done when the job needs doing, then why bother having a government at all?
 
INRM said:
Six7's,

Do you think the government should be given enormous power to eavesdrop like big-brother and monitor the internet without warrant?


INRM
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iNR'M,

You persist in expecting answers whilst ignoring questions

This is both absurd and rude

Please, at least try to be polite

  • six7s said:
    INRM said:
    This treaty is likely going to be used to violate the privacy of American citizens and end-run our Constitution at the very least
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    How do you know Why do you believe this to be the case?
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  • six7s said:
    INRM said:
    Personally, I don't think such an extreme treaty or legislation is necessary.
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    Please explain WHY you think this


    INRM said:
    I think this treaty is more greed based than anything else
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    Again, please explain WHY you think this

    INRM said:
    I'm quite certain there are ways to combat this issue while operating within the confines of the US Constitution and basic privacy rights.
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    Please describe one such strategy
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​

If you at least try to answer my questions, I'll tell you what I think in regard to your question; that "the government should be given enormous power to eavesdrop like big-brother and monitor the internet without warrant"

Sound fair?
 
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The problem with this treaty is that the negotiations are in secret, and the implications of this treaty (which is largely being influenced by the recording industry) may have serious implications for us all, yet nobody is legally allowed to know anything about it until it's ratified and signed into law.

With that said, nobody could reasonably raise any form of protest that could pick up any momentum in sufficient time for the public to be made fully aware the treaty, particularly any parts that would be considered objectionable, controversial, or worse, before it would be essentially signed into law.

I don't know how anyone could consider that as being remotely in the spirit of being democratic...
 
INRM said:
The problem with this treaty is that the negotiations are in secret, and the implications of this treaty (which is largely being influenced by the recording industry) may have serious implications for us all, yet nobody is legally allowed to know anything about it until it's ratified and signed into law.
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It's been repeatedly pointed out that...
...treaties are customarily negotiated in secret.
...and therefore you don't really know what all the influences are.
...the treaty will be made public before it's ratified and signed.

Please acknowledge these points.

Is the recording industry a wolf? Yes. Is the werewolf you're warning us about real? Probably not.
 
I eagerly await the following threads:

Will the Government use pet doors to sneak into our homes?

Are autogyros the new tool the police will use to oppress us?

Crossing guards: fascists in training?

What if the government brainwashes my dog?

Are OSHA guidelines the first step to a police state?

Can we really ever trust librarians?

What if I'm not really me?

Until they arrive I will ask this, to no one in particular; how would do you think ACTA treaty negotiations should be conducted?
 
Travis said:
how would do you think ACTA treaty negotiations should be conducted?
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All participants to be blindfolded and gagged and transported to a secret basement at 42, Cherry Blossom Close, Staines, Surrey.

All requests for permission to communicate to be initiated by hopping on one leg

Permission to be granted by 20A, 240V shock to left thigh

All questions and answers to be written in braille (via morse code activated by nose), encrypted with a 4096-bit private key and emailed to INRM@hotmail.org
 
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Travis said:
how would do you think ACTA treaty negotiations should be conducted?
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Materials:
  • Number 2 graphite pencil, with an eraser (1 per negotiating party)
  • Sheet of A4 paper (1 per negotiating party)
  • Letter envelope (1 per negotiating party)
  • Large envelope (1 per negotiating party)
  • Felt tip pen (1)
  • Pencil sharpener (1)

Additional Resources:
  • A number of impartial volunteers, to oversee the procedure (e.g., members of a local skeptic's society).
  • A video camera.
  • A secure room.
  • A set of hand-held radios or other signaling devices.
  • A self-proclaimed "psychic".

Procedure:
  1. One at a time, each party to the negotation sends a representative from a private location to the secure room.
  2. When the representative enters the room, a volunteer will give them a sheet of A4 paper, an unsharpened Number 2 graphite pencil, and a letter envelope.
  3. The representative will sharpen their pencil using the pencil sharpener provided, and use the pencil to write their draft treaty proposal on one side of the single sheet of A4 paper. They can use the eraser attached to the pencil as much as they want.
  4. Once they are done, the representative will fold the paper in three equal sections, such that the written side is concealed.
  5. After folding the paper, the representative will place it in the letter envelope, seal the envelope, and hand it to the volunteer.
  6. The representative will leave the room. The volunteer will place the letter envelope in a larger envelope, seal the envelope, and use the felt-tip pen to write a unique number on the larger envelope.
  7. The volunteer will then signal that the representative's task is complete, and the next representative will be conducted from a private location to the secure room.
  8. Once each representative has thus deposited a treaty draft in a numbered envelope, the psychic will be brought into the secure room and asked to match each numbered envelope to the negotiating party whose proposal it contains, by writing the name of that party on the envelope below the number.
  9. Once all envelopes have thus been matched, the representatives are called in individually to read the contents of the envelope indicated for them by the psychic, and identify whether or not it is the draft treaty proposal they had written.
  10. If the psychic correctly identifies at least 90% of the negotiating parties, she is eligible to make a second attempt, using the same protocol. Success at the second attempt entitles her to Randi's $1million.
  11. Otherwise, the psychic is barred from participating in treaty negotiations for one year.
  12. Regardless of the outcome of the psychic's predictions, once the verification process is complete, the psychic and the volunteers are thanked for their services and dismissed, and the representatives then adjourn to a location of their choosing to negotiate the treaty in whatever manner they care to specify amongst themselves.
 
I think this should be discussed out in the open where everyone can see just what this treaty is about. What if this treaty severely affects our rights and privacy online?

I think any citizens who are members of the signatory nations to this treaty are entitled to know.
 
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