So Silverstein "pulled" his buildings so he could go broke rebuilding them?

[Sword_Of_Truth]

Again as a NYer I listened to the radio and watched the reports all day.
Very early on 1010 wins was reporting that BLDG 7 was "visibly" leaning towards the south and that collapse was a real fear.
This was no shock when it happened that day.

I watched it all happen on CNN that day. When I first heard of building 7s collapse I was surprised. Not that it fell, but that it fell alone.

I saw the thousands of tons of debris falling all over hells half acre (not "neatly into their own footprints"), I remember expecting more buildings to fall.

 

[sts60]

Justin39640, welcome to the board, and well said.

The rest of you, arguing with the likes of Ultima1 is useless, unless you simply like banging your head against a brick wall. He evidently is assured - he knows - that his advanced degree from the University of Google trumps actual firefighting training and experience as presented by multiple FFs on this board, myself included. You cannot penetrate, or even dent, such a cognitive armor composed in equal measures of ignorance and self-assurance, using weapons like facts and logic. This type will just go on serenely repeating context-free factoids tortured into supporting their paranoid worldview, personal opinions as axioms, and outright misrepresentations until the heat death of the Universe, or at least until mommy kicks them off the computer. If you simply enjoy having a bloody forehead, go for it, but don't kid yourself that such all-purpose geniuses will ever learn anything.

 

[ElMondoHummus]

Yes, welcome Justin39640.

If this isn't already obvious, I should point out that there are a few people here - STS60 here, leftysergeant, Hamradioguy, and a few others - with firefighting experience. I find it amazing that Ultima tries to contradict them on their own ground (firefighting knowledge). But, it's manifestly obvious that he's delusional, so I guess I shouldn't be surprised.

 

[Macgyver1968]

Justin39640, welcome to the board, and well said.

The rest of you, arguing with the likes of Ultima1 is useless, unless you simply like banging your head against a brick wall. He evidently is assured - he knows - that his advanced degree from the University of Google trumps actual firefighting training and experience as presented by multiple FFs on this board, myself included. You cannot penetrate, or even dent, such a cognitive armor composed in equal measures of ignorance and self-assurance, using weapons like facts and logic. This type will just go on serenely repeating context-free factoids tortured into supporting their paranoid worldview, personal opinions as axioms, and outright misrepresentations until the heat death of the Universe, or at least until mommy kicks them off the computer. If you simply enjoy having a bloody forehead, go for it, but don't kid yourself that such all-purpose geniuses will ever learn anything.

Nicely said there. Kinda pointless to debate against pathologies.

Oh..and welcome to the board Justin..nicely said also.

 

[A W Smith]

Ultima1 shows his lack of research skills.

But it was going to cost more money to remove the asbestos then the towers were making.

You really should do research.

Its fun and easy to prove Ultima is ignorant with facts

no asbestos fireproofing in building seven. and the only asbestos fireproofing in the towers was in the first 30 some floors of tower 1 only which was encapsulated with shotcrete even before they were finished with its construction.

 

[BigAl]

But it was going to cost more money to remove the asbestos then the towers were making.

WTC was "immensely profitable" as of 2001.

The impact has indeed been all that and more. First a financial white elephant, the complex has come to be immensely profitable and has delivered on its promise to help rejuvenate Lower Manhattan. As a global symbol of New York, the Twin Towers are as identifiable as the Eiffel Tower, the Capitol dome or Big Ben are of their respective cities. But, as the project evolved, it also developed into a major factor in turning public attitudes against large-scale development, ambitious public works, and even against government action itself.

http://www.greatbuildings.com/buildings/World_Trade_Center_History.html​

Big buildings deal with asbestos all the time. I've never heard of a building being taken down only becuase of the the asbestos.

 

[Justin39640]

WTC was "immensely profitable" as of 2001.

Big buildings deal with asbestos all the time. I've never heard of a building being taken down only becuase of the the asbestos.

I've heard the "truthers" use that white elephant quote before but they imply it was describing the later days of the complex
Anyone whose read about the WTC knows that they had a tough time renting space in the early days.

And that's where i get really mad at them.
To take quotes from history books and witnesses, then twist and reshape them to fit their ideas, shows such disrespect it's stomach turning. (there's many examples where "truther" sites take quotes from 2 or more individuals and present them as a single persons quote, horribly out of context)
They spit in the face of the victims by misrepresenting the "evidence" in the ways that they do.

even the Silverstein quote, he started with "theres been such terrible loss of life" but truthers ignore that and think hes thinking -"so lets cause more destruction and mayhem by destroying another building while search and rescue is still going on AT ITS BASE" this makes no sense.
No firefighter wanted to leave that zone. They knew people were buried in there but the building was obviously going to collapse and there was nothing they could do that wouldn't have put more firefighters lives in serious jeopardy.

I wasn't a firefighter but i was a junior in the local volunteer dept when i was a teenager, even at that level we always trained with collapse in mind and that it is always a real threat in a fire. Steel, wood, or otherwise.
If it wasn't the term "collapse zone" would have been never hear of prior to 911.

And 7 was not controlled in the least.
When it came down it heavily damaged Fitterman Hall at 30 west broadway.(north of 7) Its remains had to be demolished later.

 

[FineWine]

I can show FOIA request, you cannot. DO NOT LIE.

You tried pretending that Nigro called Silverstein and you got caught.

No i proved that Chief Nigro was the ranking officer anda should have known what was going on. Also the fact that he evacuated the firemen BEFORE the phone call.

Even for a "truther" you tell a lot of lies. You tried pretending that Nigro called Silverstein and you got caught. You don't have the slightest idea when the last man left WTC 7. Would you like to hear it a few more times?

Nobody ever disagreed that Nigro was the ranking officer. Your illness prevents you from understanding what has been explained to you repeatedly. NO ONE knows when the call to Silverstein was made, or who made it. For all we know, there was no call. We can't be certain that ANYONE made a courtesy call to Silverstein. Nigro denies making it and says he doesn't know who might have. How do we know that Silverstein didn't merely inflate his nonexistent role in the events of 9/11 into a tiny role? He says he was informed of the FDNY's decision. How do we actually know that he was?

With all the incoherent lies manufactured about Larry Silverstein, the one thing he could conceivably have lied about--a harmless self-serving fib--is never considered.

 

[Travis]

It's like someone just copy and pasted page 3 five more times to try and make this thread look eight pages long.

 

[ULTIMA1]

I can show FOIA request, you cannot. DO NOT LIE.

You tried pretending that Nigro called Silverstein and you got caught.

No i proved that Chief Nigro was the ranking officer and should have known what was going on. Also the fact that he evacuated the firemen BEFORE the phone call.

 

[ULTIMA1]

You tried pretending that Nigro called Silverstein and you got caught.

NO i have proven that Chief Nigro was the ranking officer and would ahve been the one to make the call.

You still have failed to show any evidence or reports that the firemen were in the building when the call was made.


THE BELEIVERS HAVE DONE NOTHING BUT SPREAD LIES SINCE 9/11.

 

[ULTIMA1]

You said the building was empty, Roger.

Yes as the statements from Chief Nigro and Chief Hayden support this.

You cannot show any information or reports that show the firemen were in building at the time of the call.

 

[Gavron]

It's been 2 days now, Roger.

Where are all of your reports that show burning 40+ story buildings being "pulled" before or after 9/11?

Unsecured coins asked for them, and said he would be back in 2 days to see your answers, and you said "Ok no problem as long as you accept and admit to the facts shown. ".

Its been 2 days....

 

[johnny karate]

Give him until Tuesday. Pretend NSA Headquarters is probably closed for the holiday weekend.

 

[pgimeno]

Funniest CT I've heard about Silverstein's quote is: his was not a "slip in the tongue" but a veiled threat against those who could betray him. The threat would be, in spanish, "tirar de la manta" ("to pull the blanket" [bringing everything and everyone with it].) In english I guess it would be to "blow the whistle".

Yet that "they" in the quote is still in the middle of the sentence breaking down the whole CT...

Or, the FDNY might be part of the conspiracy, who knows! (together with the FEMA, NIST, NYPD, FAA, NORAD, NTSB, etc. etc. etc.) Guess what: there's a video supporting the FDNY as part of the conspiracy, just as there is of anything else.

I can't post links or videos yet, youtube video ID is: 58h0LjdMry0

- All I can attest to is that by noon or one o'clock they told us we had to move from that triage site up to Pace University a little further away because building 7 was going to come down or being brought down.
- Did they actually use the words "brought down" and who was it that was telling you this?
- The fire department. The fire department, and they did use the word "we're gonna have to bring- we're gonna have to bring it down."
​

 

[TJM]

I can't post links or videos yet, youtube video ID is:

There you go.

 

[Justin39640]

i hate those truther videos of 7
theyre all edited (cause they cut out the beginning 10 seconds when the east penthouse collapses

that in itself is enough to discredit the "truth movement", the fact that edited videos tell the "truth", not unedited video (disgusting really)

here is a short utube from some guys who apparently watched all day and was taking video
there is a cut when the building collapses but i cant tell if he just stopped shooting for a sec and picked up again a few seconds too late or if the east penthouse was edited out
/watch?v=SIbqaybkbWI
his opinions are pretty obvious (was he in on it too?????????)

here is a video that's kinda long but at the end it shows the entire unedited collapse
/watch?v=_kSq663m0G8

here is the only thing the "truth" wants you to see
/watch?v=LD06SAf0p9A

it is very hard to find (nowadays) the entire unmolested clip cause the "truth movement" has inundated the internet with the short edit version
apparently the vocal minority is clogging out the real truth so that only their version gets out there (which, again, makes me sick)

 

[TJM]

i)

here is a video that's kinda long but at the end it shows the entire unedited collapse


here is the only thing the "truth" wants you to see


it is very hard to find (nowadays) the entire unmolested clip cause the "truth movement" has inundated the internet with the short edit version
apparently the vocal minority is clogging out the real truth so that only their version gets out there (which, again, makes me sick)

Ok, there YOU go.

 

[Justin39640]

NO i have proven that Chief Nigro was the ranking officer and would ahve been the one to make the call.

You still have failed to show any evidence or reports that the firemen were in the building when the call was made.

as i posted before Nigro's only concern was that he wasnt going to lose more people. saving an empty, obviously undermined structure (cause the reports of the bulge and groaning noises started about 1pm) is the last thing on any of their minds (remember they know at this point they lost hundreds including many of Nigros friends) asking the owner of the building if it's OK is even less important.
LIVES TAKE PRECEDENT OVER BUILDINGS ALL OF THE TIME

here is what Chief Hayden said about what he knew
from Firehouse magazine

"We had a good fire in there. We had the equivalent of a fourth-alarm fire in there. We had fire in 50 and 7 World Trade Center. We had fire in 90 West. We had a smaller fire in one of the apartments in Battery Park City that we dispatched companies up there to put out. We had a water supply problem because I remember the water main was broken. Actually, to get water over in our sector over there at West and Liberty we got one of the fireboats to draft for us. It turned out it was the retired John J. Harvey that started drafting for us. That�s what got us water. When somebody total me the Harvey was pumping water, I said the Harvey? Thank God it was there because it pumped for us for about three to five days. Chief Mosier took the operations in 90 West. I gave him X amount of companies. I said just hold it, keep her from jumping the street. The Marriott Hotel was across the street. I said just don�t let it get out of the building here, just try to confine it, and he did a great job up there. They got some lines. They were able to hold it and contain it.

Firehouse: The building just south of that was the Marriott.
Hayden: Across the street. That�s what I was concerned about, that the fire would jump the streets. We had exposure problems, so Bobby�s function was just to contain the fire there. They had a big air shaft in there and he was able to get a line across the shaft and keep it in one wing of the building on the upper floors. And eventually it burned itself out. There was a good fire condition. It was pouring smoke and fire out of there. We were going to a fourth-alarm fire there. If you had to really address this fire, you would be trying to handle it as a fourth alarmer and he had nowhere near that, so he did a good job with that. We also were doing searches along all the debris in front of the Marriott and out on West Street, the void searches.

Firehouse: Other people tell me that there were a lot of firefighters in the street who were visible, and they put out traffic cones to mark them off?
Hayden: Yeah. There was enough there and we were marking off. There were a lot of damaged apparatus there that were covered. We tried to get searches in those areas. By now, this is going on into the afternoon, and we were concerned about additional collapse, not only of the Marriott, because there was a good portion of the Marriott still standing, but also we were pretty sure that 7 World Trade Center would collapse. Early on, we saw a bulge in the southwest corner between floors 10 and 13, and we had put a transit on that and we were pretty sure she was going to collapse. You actually could see there was a visible bulge, it ran up about three floors. It came down about 5 o�clock in the afternoon, but by about 2 o�clock in the afternoon we realized this thing was going to collapse."

THE BELEIVERS HAVE DONE NOTHING BUT SPREAD LIES SINCE 9/11.

i think thats the pot calling the kettle black, although the kettle wasn't just caught editing videos.....

side note on Nigro's thoughts before the collapses
another quote from his interview with investigators on oct 24th 2001

Q. Stepping back for a moment to when you were
coming over the Brooklyn Bridge, could you make a
determination based on a visual from that distance how
involved or fully involved the fire was and how many
floors?
A. It looked to me like it was involving about
10 floors of the building, and the way it was burning,
I stated to Chief Ganci on the way there that I didn't
believe we could extinguish the fire.
Q. That was based on what?
A. The number of floors I think. The volume of
fire on the number of floors. To my recollection, we
had never put out a fire that involved that many floors
in a high rise building in this city before. I think
more or less the direction of - in both towers ended
up, evacuation was the main, the initial concern. Get
as many people out of the building as we could.

 

[FineWine]

NO i have proven that Chief Nigro was the ranking officer and would ahve been the one to make the call.

You still have failed to show any evidence or reports that the firemen were in the building when the call was made.


THE BELEIVERS HAVE DONE NOTHING BUT SPREAD LIES SINCE 9/11.

The terrific beating you've received from the sane people hasn't helped you one bit. Let's try again:

You don't have the slightest idea if firefighters were still in the building when the call to Silverstein was made. We don't know for certain that anyone actually called Silverstein. Perhaps one of several fire chiefs on the ground placed a courtesy call; perhaps not. If you can prove that nobody called Silverstein, then we can establish that NOBODY used the phrase "pull it."

Happy now?