Amway TV ad

[icerat]

Have you actually even bothered to check out the site, survey, and methodology? Your very question displays either ignorance or arrogance.

The RDA Most Trusted Brand surveys have been occurring for almost a decade. While RD commissions them, they're run by Neilsen Company, a well respected research firm.

Their is no "ultimate touchstone" of consumer opinion, but clearly these are respectable surveys. My apologise if the results don't conform to your preconceived beliefs. Reality can be like that some times.

 

[dudalb]

I have never been into YOUTUBE,but I would love to post a link to a clip of Alec Baldwin's classic rant on salesmanship in "Glengerry Glenn Ross". That seems so apporpriate for a discussion on Amway.

 

[icerat]

I have never been into YOUTUBE,but I would love to post a link to a clip of Alec Baldwin's classic rant on salesmanship in "Glengerry Glenn Ross". That seems so apporpriate for a discussion on Amway.

Nice clip, never seen that or the movie. Heck of a cast!

How is it "appropriate"? It's not even remotely applicable to Amway. Anyone doing that approach is on a fast track to failure. Might work with large one off purchases like cars and real estate, but with relatively low cost consumables you need to build long-term lasting relationships with your clients (and downline for that matter).

Hard sell doesn't work.

But if you want to see something hilarious, check out Amway Neighbour on youtube (posted by the copyright owner). It's a riot! I use it as a training video on how not to be successful with Amway

 

[NewtonTrino]

I'm curious if Icerat just monitors the forum for activity and pops up whenever this subject comes up.

I'm curious if his business has grown over the last year? Making any money yet Icerat? I didn't think so...

 

[blutoski]

Right, so there's this ad on TV for Amway/Quixtar.

They said how they helped over 3 million people run their own business, with revenue over $6 billion.

Wait... isn't that income of $2000 per person? Maybe they mean current revenue is $6 billion and 3 million people have previously been involved. That could mean 2 million have quit, but 1 million are still in. Wait... isn't that still only $6000 per person?

Either loads of people have quit, or the people on average don't really make much money. Both ways make it sound like not such a good deal.

I read through the thread to see if this was the company's revenues or if it was the salesteam's revenues. It's still not clear.

Assuming that this is the company's gross revenues, it's probably fair to say that the salesforce is only earning a margin - say 10% overall. That's somewhere around $200 per salesperson gross annual income before expenses and income tax. Mean average.

However, icerat does have a good point: that the income is not uniform, and is probably bimodal with 99.9% of the salesforce probably earning negative and 0.1% making some positive gains, some of them making lots of money.

The usual routine is to blame the victims - like any other cult, they're told weren't faithful enough, so it's their own fault the guru has their hard-earned cash.

 

[Robster FCD]

Icerat has renewed my conviction to stay away from Amway. Thanks.

 

[Almo]

Glad to hear it!

 

[NewtonTrino]

In a way I'm sad. I wonder if he's even still doing the business or not. It's almost a sure thing that he lost several thousands of dollars since the last post unless he's high up (and hence in on the scam).

 

[blutoski]

In a way I'm sad. I wonder if he's even still doing the business or not. It's almost a sure thing that he lost several thousands of dollars since the last post unless he's high up (and hence in on the scam).

This is the thing... recruitment is very dependent on the impression of success, so the salesperson is incredibly motivated to fabricate success. I had a colleague who worked two fulltime jobs to obtain an expensive car and give the impression that Quixstar was working well for him. This was partly for recruiting, but also I think eventually because he didn't want to show failure.

(Note: he has since gone into real estate, and is still doing the same thing - second job is paying for the Mercedes)


We're so abstracted from any possible way to verify this: we're on the internet, and even if we were to know the person, we don't know how much of the income is actually generated from Amway versus spouse, inheritence, previous investments, or other occupation.

 

[NewtonTrino]

Absolutely true. I have no doubts that some people make big money as they are the ones that control these systems and the money has to go somewhere. I've also been in a position to verify this due to my biz dealings with them in the past. However, the kingpins making the cash aren't going to show up here and start arguing like Icerat. He's just one of the cult members. If he somehow managed to build a big enough organization he could tap into the scam money as well. Doesn't make the whole thing any better.

Anyway one very common line in that business is "Fake it till ya make it".

 

[Hound01]

Books on MLM

Can anyone recommend any good books on MLM?
One I read recently and really enjoyed was "False Profits" by Robert Fitzpatrick and Joyce Reynolds. I takes the reader through the usual MLM cycle of enthusiasm to despair ending with poorer but wiser.

 

[fuelair]

Oh right, so all those deoderant ads implying that by buying their products aren't "selling a dream of success"?

Most products are marketed as helping you achieve something you want, doesn't matter if it's washing powder to clean clothes or ferrari's to pick up women.

The question is - will they actually help achieve that?

Amway's reputation suffers because some people over-promise what it offers, and they've been spanked a couple of times over the years for not monitoring that better (as recently as the past year in the UK). What Amway offers, apart from the hundreds of products themselves, is a business opportunity, and they do that. There's no guarantees, and a lot of work involved.

If some "mucky muck" is promoting it as some easy get rich scheme, take it up with them and report them to Amway.




How many of these "higher ups" have you encountered exactly, to make such broad and sweeping accusations? There are literally thousands of folk at the "diamond" level of achievement and above. What's your sample size for making your judgement of the behaviours and ethics of all of them?

The biggest problem is that Amway is a pyramid scheme which has been somehow able to mostly stay ahead of the law. IF you are defending it because you or a family member/friend is involved, fine, but it should be shut down or forced to sell through stores. I do not care which.

Oh, by the by, if they are so upfront/honest/legitimate as you are saying then please explain why they NEVER identify the company when they try to get you to a first meeting. I have been to seven in various parts of the country and not one personal (to my face) invitation used the word Amway - even when I specifically asked what company they were asking me to meet about.

 

[Bob Klase]

Can anyone recommend any good books on MLM?
One I read recently and really enjoyed was "False Profits" by Robert Fitzpatrick and Joyce Reynolds. I takes the reader through the usual MLM cycle of enthusiasm to despair ending with poorer but wiser.

Merchants of Deception is not about MLM in general, but specifically about Amway and the experiences of one person who spent years trying to make it rich. I read it a few years ago- you can download free in pdf:

http://www.merchantsofdeception.com/

 

[quarky]

In the chapter of my life wherein I was surrounded by Mormons, they couldn't get enough of every pyramid scam that came along. The pyramid was highly compatible with their religious organization.

I sat through many of the promo sessions with various Amway-like organizations.
They all reminded me of chain letters. Most of them have gone out of business.
The "Cambridge Diet" was one of the more heavy handed ones. It was very 'sciency'.

Yet, in a way, capitalism itself is a pyramid scheme. A Ponzi scheme, even.

Evolution even has a bit of the old pyramid in it.

 

[fuelair]

In the chapter of my life wherein I was surrounded by Mormons, they couldn't get enough of every pyramid scam that came along. The pyramid was highly compatible with their religious organization.

I sat through many of the promo sessions with various Amway-like organizations.
They all reminded me of chain letters. Most of them have gone out of business.
The "Cambridge Diet" was one of the more heavy handed ones. It was very 'sciency'.

Yet, in a way, capitalism itself is a pyramid scheme. A Ponzi scheme, even.

Evolution even has a bit of the old pyramid in it.

So does nutrition and Ecology (from vegetation to top predator).

 

[icerat]

Can anyone recommend any good books on MLM?
One I read recently and really enjoyed was "False Profits" by Robert Fitzpatrick and Joyce Reynolds. I takes the reader through the usual MLM cycle of enthusiasm to despair ending with poorer but wiser.

You could try "The Direct Selling Revolution" by Professer Dominique Xardel, former Head of ESSEC and Editor of European Harvard Business Review.

Or "The New Professionals: The Rise of Network Marketing As the Next Major Profession" by Professor Charles W King and James Robinson

That's assuming you want books by knowledgeable, respected business academics ... somehow I suspect you don't .....

 

[icerat]

The biggest problem is that Amway is a pyramid scheme which has been somehow able to mostly stay ahead of the law. IF you are defending it because you or a family member/friend is involved, fine, but it should be shut down or forced to sell through stores. I do not care which.

It's not even close to a pyramid scheme. By definition a pyramid scheme is something where you make money by recruiting people. For any given sales volume, recruiting people in Amway will cost you money, not make you money.

Oh, by the by, if they are so upfront/honest/legitimate as you are saying then please explain why they NEVER identify the company when they try to get you to a first meeting. I have been to seven in various parts of the country and not one personal (to my face) invitation used the word Amway - even when I specifically asked what company they were asking me to meet about.

That's a legitimate complaint, and you answered it in your first paragraph. Misconceptions. You might want to check out this post - Why don't people just tell you it's Amway?

 

[timhau]

In the chapter of my life wherein I was surrounded by Mormons, they couldn't get enough of every pyramid scam that came along. The pyramid was highly compatible with their religious organization.

For some reason, a disproportionately huge number of the people in WinCapita, the largest economic fraud in Finnish history, were evangelical Christians from some of our numberous small sects.

The fraud itself was a Ponzi scheme where the profits were supposed to come from currency trading. And as with the original Mr. Ponzi, some of the victims still think it was all for real and that the fraudsters who are either in custody or in hiding will come back any day now and make them fabulously rich.

 

[Foolmewunz]

I'm curious if Icerat just monitors the forum for activity and pops up whenever this subject comes up.

I'm curious if his business has grown over the last year? Making any money yet Icerat? I didn't think so...

Bump for IceRat....

As long as you've decloaked, how abou it? Want to answer NT's questions?

Or should I put on Jerry Jeff Walker doing "Mr. Bojangles" while we get ready for you to dance around the issue for a few dozen posts?

 

[Eddie Dane]

OK, having read this thread up to this point, I have a question.

As I understand it, there is a number of wonderful products with wonderful unique selling points working their way down the Amway ladder.

Presumably this stuff has to end up with a broad base of end consumers. Who the hell are these people?

I'm a discerning consumer and I have no trouble finding quality products for a good price.
In fact, these days I'm often pleasantly surprised how much good stuff is available for little money.

I personally work in an organisation that is in a constant battle to develop great products and get them to the customer at a sharp price.

The Amway system doesn't focus on the product at all. Today's consumers demand great stuff for little money and as far as I can see the Amway system can only lead to mediocre products with lots of middlemen.

Where are these Amway products supposed to go? Sold via Tupperware party model? it sure doesn't end up in my local supermarket.

Do the Amway sales people end up with a garage full of b-quality detergent?

IMHO people who fall for this really didn't think it through.