Amway TV ad

[Almo]

Right, so there's this ad on TV for Amway/Quixtar.

They said how they helped over 3 million people run their own business, with revenue over $6 billion.

Wait... isn't that income of $2000 per person? Maybe they mean current revenue is $6 billion and 3 million people have previously been involved. That could mean 2 million have quit, but 1 million are still in. Wait... isn't that still only $6000 per person?

Either loads of people have quit, or the people on average don't really make much money. Both ways make it sound like not such a good deal.

 

[Chupacabras]

Great number play! (yours, not theirs).

I guess they are just flashing the numbers to an uncritical audience - the mere sound of "billion" is enough to make them fall for it. I have a cousin (in Herbalife) that uses this very knowledge to his advantage.

If you spot the ad on YT, please let us know.


ETA: found several by user QuixtarPR - still have to check them out.

 

[XBoxWarrior]

Do you have a link?

I wanna make Billions....I don't care how many quit.

Is Amway the same as Quixtar?

Because I could sell way more 'Quick Stars' than 'Amways' in this day~n~age...

"Where's my Billion G.W.B."?

 

[Chupacabras]

http://www.youtube.com/profile_videos?user=QuixtarPR&p=r

This takes you to videos from user QuixtarPR. Check numbers 3 to 6 (the first 3 are the Spanish versions).

They almost got me, but I fell asleep just in time.

 

[slingblade]

I mentioned a year or so ago that one of our kids had gotten involved with them. He and his wife wouldn't listen to a word from us, or anyone. They kept telling us how rich they were going to be, and how they had actually met some of the High Muckety-Mucks at one of the many "conferences" they had to go to, at their own expense and travel. They kept telling us how these impressively wealthy higher-ups had assured them if they'd just stick with it, they'd be rich in no time!

A couple of months ago, I realized I hadn't been hearing a word about Quixtar. I asked my husband why, and he, in turn, asked his son.

Turns out that they had spent so much on conferences, packages, and "tools," that they couldn't afford to operate their "store" anymore and had to give it up. Apparently, they said, the only ones getting rich were the High Muckety-Mucks they'd met.

Oh, if only someone had just told them this could happen!

 

[JoeEllison]

I worked with a pretty old guy who used to sell Amway. Even though he had stopped, he was still convinced years later that it could work. He went on and on about how many people became rich doing it... to which I could only reply "then why are you here working with me?" He got really angry about it, but he wouldn't back down about how wonderful Amway is.

 

[Jumile]

Always comes down to the same thing in all aspects of life... people want to believe, regardless of evidence.

 

[icerat]

Right, so there's this ad on TV for Amway/Quixtar.

They said how they helped over 3 million people run their own business, with revenue over $6 billion.

Wait... isn't that income of $2000 per person? Maybe they mean current revenue is $6 billion and 3 million people have previously been involved. That could mean 2 million have quit, but 1 million are still in. Wait... isn't that still only $6000 per person?

The 3 million is people who have renewed in the previous year. The average is a global number and doesn't discriminate between those working for a full-time income or those who renew just to buy the products cheaper.

$2000/yr is also a decent income in many countries Amway operates.

Either loads of people have quit, or the people on average don't really make much money. Both ways make it sound like not such a good deal.

People on average don't make much money. On the other hand, people on average don't do much to make any money. Very very few of that 3million would even put 5 hours a week into their Amway business.

Amway is like any other business and requires months and years of work and dedication to generate a decent income. The ones who succeed are the ones who choose not to be average.

If you want to be an average Amway business owner, and do, on average, very little work, then you will, on average make very little money.

Seems fair enough to me.

 

[YoPopa]

Amway is like any other business and requires months and years of work and dedication to generate a decent income. The ones who succeed are the ones who chose not to be average.

I beg to differ. Amway is not like any other business. It is only like the businesses which profit by selling a dream of success. I met a few of those higher up mucky mucks myself. That was back when I was a naive young lad with very little money but lots of faith in others (about 35 years ago).

Those higher ups are all very good at persuasion. The techniques they use are very high pressure and dishonest. You too can succeed if you have the ethics of a scoundrel and the greed of a seagull.

 

[icerat]

I beg to differ. Amway is not like any other business. It is only like the businesses which profit by selling a dream of success. I met a few of those higher up mucky mucks myself. That was back when I was a naive young lad with very little money but lots of faith in others (about 35 years ago).

Oh right, so all those deoderant ads implying that by buying their products aren't "selling a dream of success"?

Most products are marketed as helping you achieve something you want, doesn't matter if it's washing powder to clean clothes or ferrari's to pick up women.

The question is - will they actually help achieve that?

Amway's reputation suffers because some people over-promise what it offers, and they've been spanked a couple of times over the years for not monitoring that better (as recently as the past year in the UK). What Amway offers, apart from the hundreds of products themselves, is a business opportunity, and they do that. There's no guarantees, and a lot of work involved.

If some "mucky muck" is promoting it as some easy get rich scheme, take it up with them and report them to Amway.

Those higher ups are all very good at persuasion. The techniques they use are very high pressure and dishonest. You too can succeed if you have the ethics of a scoundrel and the greed of a seagull.

How many of these "higher ups" have you encountered exactly, to make such broad and sweeping accusations? There are literally thousands of folk at the "diamond" level of achievement and above. What's your sample size for making your judgement of the behaviours and ethics of all of them?

 

[YoPopa]

Oh right, so all those deoderant ads implying that by buying their products aren't "selling a dream of success"?

Most products are marketed as helping you achieve something you want, doesn't matter if it's washing powder to clean clothes or ferrari's to pick up women.

The question is - will they actually help achieve that?

The products have nothing to do with my complaint. It is the techniques that are used to sell the MLM program, and MLM programs in general, to which I object.

Perhaps your point was that other products use "a dream of success" in their advertising? That is true. The difference is one of degree. When a friend or acquaintance is talking to you face to face and using high pressure sales techniques it is very different from seeing an ad on TV or in print.

Amway's reputation suffers because some people over-promise what it offers, and they've been spanked a couple of times over the years for not monitoring that better (as recently as the past year in the UK). What Amway offers, apart from the hundreds of products themselves, is a business opportunity, and they do that. There's no guarantees, and a lot of work involved.

If some "mucky muck" is promoting it as some easy get rich scheme, take it up with them and report them to Amway.

As I tried to make clear. My direct experience was 35 years ago. I never complained back then. It took me almost 10 years to get to the point that I could admit to being scammed. Your mileage may vary.

How many of these "higher ups" have you encountered exactly, to make such broad and sweeping accusations? There are literally thousands of folk at the "diamond" level of achievement and above. What's your sample size for making your judgement of the behaviours and ethics of all of them?

My sample size is small and I hope to keep it that way. My last encounter with someone in the program was with a friend about 5 years ago. He was in tough financial straights at the time. He started telling me about this new program that he was in. The one thing he said which impressed me the most was "It's not MLM". I knew at that moment that it was Amway and that it was MLM.

If you are in the program then I wish you the best of luck. Perhaps Amway has really changed since I was taken in.

 

[icerat]

When a friend or acquaintance is talking to you face to face and using high pressure sales techniques it is very different from seeing an ad on TV or in print.

Of course, and in my experience "high pressure sales techniques" don't build a long lasting business relationship in any business. Do people do it anyway? Yup. Folk who think maybe it'll help make them a fast buck.

Doesn't work very well though, in Amway or any other business.

The problem is of course the people who use that approach damage the reputation of that business for others. The irony being the ones who use that approach fail and aren't around to have to put up with the reputation problems.

My sample size is small and I hope to keep it that way. My last encounter with someone in the program was with a friend about 5 years ago. He was in tough financial straights at the time. He started telling me about this new program that he was in. The one thing he said which impressed me the most was "It's not MLM". I knew at that moment that it was Amway and that it was MLM.

So you actually have very very little basis for making a sweeping statement encompassing thousands, indeeds hundreds of thousands of people if you include those making full-time equivalent incomes.

If you are in the program then I wish you the best of luck. Perhaps Amway has really changed since I was taken in.

Amway compensation plan hasn't changed much. New and better products have been included. Logistics have been dramatically simplified. More importantly, the percentage of folk using inappropriate (and ineffective) techniques has decreased dramatically.

Of course, by virtue of it's very size, even a very very very small percentage of folk doing the wrong thing can still be a significant number of people.

But it's improving.

 

[Chupacabras]

But you know, the ads, I don't like them.

Yeah.

 

[YoPopa]

Of course, and in my experience "high pressure sales techniques" don't build a long lasting business relationship in any business. Do people do it anyway? Yup. Folk who think maybe it'll help make them a fast buck.

Glad to see that there is some basis for us to agree. Where we split will probably be on where we draw the line to define high pressure. There are all sorts of pressures that folks can use to influence others. The most successful are subtle.

So you actually have very very little basis for making a sweeping statement encompassing thousands, indeeds hundreds of thousands of people if you include those making full-time equivalent incomes.

Yep, is there a problem with that?

Amway compensation plan hasn't changed much.

So it's still MLM. Same poop, different day.

New and better products have been included. Logistics have been dramatically simplified. More importantly, the percentage of folk using inappropriate (and ineffective) techniques has decreased dramatically.

So they've gotten better a training people to use the more subtle high pressure techniques.

Maybe you've guessed by now that my basic objection is to MLM. Any technique or new phraseology which seeks to promote an MLM is ( IMHO, OK?) pure bunkum.

 

[kittynh]

oh dear.

I mean I have a friend that works for a company that sells deodorant and many of the same products whatevertheheck Amway is calling itself.

The COMPANY pays for him to go to conferences and for furthering his education. The company he works for also does not run ads that seem to be selling "work for us" rather than a product. I mean the ad talks about the product, but not where to get it. You get it by going to someone that tries to recruit you. Because that's how they make money. NOT by selling product, but getting someone else to sell product and get involved in recruiting more people.

Oddly no, real business does not work that way. Pyramid schemes work that way.

Well if it's fun for you and makes you happy go for it. I have a friend that sells Mary kay. She loves the product and is still at the bottom rung and will never ever get a pink cadillac. She has even been told to QUIT by the higher ups because she never recruits anyone. She refuses saying throwing a couple of parties a month is her idea of fun and she gets her own make up for a great discount.

Makes you happy fine, but you sounds a wee bit indoctrinated. Ask most people about their work, and you'll hear a LOT of complaints. Hey everyone has a job that has a few things that make them nuts and if you say, "boy that coffee machine never works right!" and "my coworker plays her ipod so loud I can' hear it!" that's normal You don't get that with Amway-whatever because they ALL love it.

Or hate it (which happens later) with a deep an all abidiing passion. It's either or.

Find me one person that is "oh well, it was ok" and I'll be a believer.

 

[Phase Inverter]

But you know, the ads, I don't like them.

Yeah.

One good thing I noticed about the ads is the fact that they clearly state that "Amway Global" operates in the U.S. as "Quixtar."

I remember a few years back when the "Quixtar" concept started, distributors would get to hide behind that name and never once mention the word "Amway" in their recruiting efforts. Of course, once you signed up, you'd notice that "Quixtar" sells exactly the same products as "Amway."

Amway is not like any other business. It is only like the businesses which profit by selling a dream of success. I met a few of those higher up mucky mucks myself. That was back when I was a naive young lad with very little money but lots of faith in others (about 35 years ago).

"If the dream is big enough, the facts don't matter" -Dexter Yager, Big Amway Muckety-Muck

 

[JoeEllison]

One good thing I noticed about the ads is the fact that they clearly state that "Amway Global" operates in the U.S. as "Quixtar."

I remember a few years back when the "Quixtar" concept started, distributors would get to hide behind that name and never once mention the word "Amway" in their recruiting efforts. Of course, once you signed up, you'd notice that "Quixtar" sells exactly the same products as "Amway."

No doubt we have a lawsuit to thank for that.

 

[icerat]

oh dear.

I mean I have a friend that works for a company that sells deodorant and many of the same products whatevertheheck Amway is calling itself.

The COMPANY pays for him to go to conferences and for furthering his education.

The COMPANY also gets most of the profit. I own several businesses and none of the companies I buy the products I market from pay for me to go to conferences etc. In fact they charge me. Amway's conferences are generally free or close to it, what you are probably referring to is the conferences etc of a number of separate independent companies that have sprung up to support Amway business owners.

The company he works for also does not run ads that seem to be selling "work for us" rather than a product. I mean the ad talks about the product, but not where to get it.

There are other ads talking about that. These ads are purely brand building. Nike ads don't give the name of a local store either.

You get it by going to someone that tries to recruit you. Because that's how they make money. NOT by selling product, but getting someone else to sell product and get involved in recruiting more people.

Um, no. You actually make *less* money per sale by getting someone else involved and them selling the product. What you might do is increase volume. Just like a clothing store might employee staff, at expense, in the hope of increasing sales volume and overall profit. There's no money just in recruiting.

Oddly no, real business does not work that way. Pyramid schemes work that way.

No "real business"? Some network marketing agents have yearly turnovers in the billions and employ numerous support staff in addition to other agents. Not a real business? IRS and other government all seem to think so. Businesses recruit staff in order to increase sales. Network markets recruit other agents in order to increase sales. Same thing.

Pyramids recruit particpant because they make money from the recruiting. Neither traditional businesses or network markets make money from the recruiting.

Well if it's fun for you and makes you happy go for it. I have a friend that sells Mary kay. She loves the product and is still at the bottom rung and will never ever get a pink cadillac. She has even been told to QUIT by the higher ups because she never recruits anyone. She refuses saying throwing a couple of parties a month is her idea of fun and she gets her own make up for a great discount.

Good for her! She clearly understands the differences between the business opportunity and how some folk (her higher ups in this case) wish to run it.

Makes you happy fine, but you sounds a wee bit indoctrinated. Ask most people about their work, and you'll hear a LOT of complaints. Hey everyone has a job that has a few things that make them nuts and if you say, "boy that coffee machine never works right!" and "my coworker plays her ipod so loud I can' hear it!" that's normal You don't get that with Amway-whatever because they ALL love it.

So you think it's better to whinge and complain than be supportive? Don't worry, folk talk about problems all the time, and there's plenty to complain about.

Or hate it (which happens later) with a deep an all abidiing passion. It's either or.

Find me one person that is "oh well, it was ok" and I'll be a believer.

Ok - me. I'm an ex-Amway guy. I enjoyed it, made some money, went on to other things. A decade or so later, got approached by a friend, got involved again. There's plenty of "oh well, it was ok" folk, they're just not much motivated to go talk about it on the 'net. Why would they?

 

[icerat]

Maybe you've guessed by now that my basic objection is to MLM. Any technique or new phraseology which seeks to promote an MLM is ( IMHO, OK?) pure bunkum.

In my experience most times people feel like that is because they have a misconception of what legitimate MLM is. The misconception has unfortunately been developed and enhanced by many scams that claim to be MLM since MLM is a legitimate business. Indeed I'm starting to conclude that most things that call themselves MLM aren't legitimate MLMs at all, but scams masquerading as MLM.

In normal language development that would actually mean MLMs does mean scam ... and legitimate businesses need some other description.

Legitimate MLMs aren't much different from traditional product distribution. Buy in bulk at a discount, sell in smaller lots at a markup. That's it.

 

[Almo]

It has already been proven that Amway is in a blind spot in icerat's critical thinking abilities in this tread. I see this trend continues here.