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Evidence for why we know the New Testament writers told the truth.

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Mr Clingford said:
Possibly I need to unpack selfless a bit more. I see selfless as incorporating something of that 'love your neighbour as yourself' - the aspect that one loves oneself can be lost by some Xtians, and that is unhealthy. I see selflessness opposed to things like greed, in contrast to relating to others for what you can get out of them (although that does not mean that if you enjoy someone's company you are being selfish!).
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That makes more sense. Thanks for clarifying.
 
Mr Clingford said:
I am surprised that you think I might be taking the piss
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Ah... well... expect the unexpected with me, old bean

because that approach is a view I have heard espoused by Anglican Bishops and theologians, and as I think it, it must a valid approach!
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No disrespect whatsoever... I know what you mean, but that makes no sense to me at all

Another thread, one day?

The verse makes no mention of professing a faith.
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I distinctly recall being taught the opposite

What type of Xtianity were you brought up in?
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Why, the one true Holy McRoman Catholic type, of course! At a time when the clergy, incl. some of my teachers and most of the adults in 'my world' were visibly reeling from Vatican II - The Wrath of Giovanni

PS I also like Oak trees!
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Yep... that PM has been open in a tab for hours, I am anxiously awaiting the arrival of a Round Tuit
 
Hokulele said:
Mmm, I can agree with you here, but I am not sure that means one has to believe in Jesus' divinity. I could see someone like Jefferson reading this much like the way Buddhists read the purported teachings of the Buddha. In other words, do as I do to earn salvation.
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This is, I suspect, where my lack of OT understanding hinders me most... I have no idea/recollection how Jews think they are going to get into heaven...

So... I can't imagine how Jefferson could have thought he was saved

Another other thread?
 
six7s said:
Ahhh... in place of reasoned discussion, another logical fallacy - and you get that skewed, as well

Begging the Question


Stop dodging DOC

Start thinking

It won't hurt
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You were the one who tried to use this article "you" brought in about St. Thomas to show that Benny Hinn was not blazing a trail in India

http://berchmans.tripod.com/apostle.html

Then I commented on the post "you" used to say Hinn did not blaze a trail by saying this begs the question "What caused Doubting Thomas (which is a fact - this person of the article "you" brought in is commonly referred to as Doubting Thomas) to stop doubting and be a missionary to India (as your article seems to say is probable).

A way in which the term "begging the question" is commonly used is not a logical fallacy -- from Wiki on "begging the question"

"The phrase is also commonly used to indicate that some crucial questions are relevant to the topic at hand. For example: It begs the questions, (1) how did he do it, and (2) why? This use, however, has nothing to do with the fallacy.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Begging_the_question
 
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six7s said:
This is, I suspect, where my lack of OT understanding hinders me most... I have no idea/recollection how Jews think they are going to get into heaven...

So... I can't imagine how Jefferson could have thought he was saved

Another other thread?
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As far as I know, the Jews do not believe so much in a Christian-style heaven, but a bodily resurrection into an earthly paradise. This reward was based on adherence to the law rather than any kind of simple-minded faith.

But as you say, this would be better suited for another thread where people with a Jewish upbringing would be willing to chime in.
 
DOC said:
How many religions do you know that have spread rapidly and peacefully in a brutal militarily occupied land
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I don't think christianity actually has done that.

where many of the followers (including its leader) were killed (without traveling to some deserted place like the Mormons)
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Hearsay and the amount of 'martyrs' isn't that impressive.

, and how many religions do you know have respected Phd's in astrophysics claim publicly for years that the religion has about 2000 fulfilled prophecies to the letter, no mistakes.
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Poor argument from authority.

And how many religions do you know that have a person like Benny Hinn that can travel to a foreign country (like India) of a different religion and draw a million people.
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Unimpressive, pop stars can do that.
 
Hokulele said:
As far as I know, the Jews do not believe so much in a Christian-style heaven, but a bodily resurrection into an earthly paradise. This reward was based on adherence to the law rather than any kind of simple-minded faith.
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What you write here reflects what Xtians can think and therefore muddled thinking! Much of what is thought to be orthodox Xtians thinking on heaven, hell and the devil owes a lot to Dante and Milton. Xtians too believe in some sort of bodily resurrection (cf 1 Cor 15) and in some sort of new Earth (cf Revelation 21 and 22), the latter images being intensely metaphorical as there is no sea on this new Earth (but I want to swim in it, and surely sailors will be a bit pissed off?).

Jewish thought developed from no idea of life after death, just some sort of shadowy existence, to the time of Jesus when the Saducees continued that line, but the Pharisees, of whom Jesus appears to be, perhaps, did now teach there was life after death.

Agreed on the following the law, rather than simple-minded faith.
 
DOC said:
from Wiki on "begging the question"

"The phrase is also commonly used to indicate that some crucial questions are relevant to the topic at hand. For example: It begs the questions, (1) how did he do it, and (2) why? This use, however, has nothing to do with the fallacy.
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Maybe not...in your delusional fantasy

Meanwhile back in the reel whirled, you are conveniently ignoring that:
  • the real issue in this thread (but you've been doing that for so long now I am not surprised)
  • your latest waffle does NOT involve 'crucial questions'

Isn't it time that you stopped lying for jesus?

Otherwise you'll burn for ever and ever and ever, right?

DOC, think...
If you have nothing to add to the discussion, add nothing
​
That's not hard to grasp, is it?
 
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Mr Clingford said:
Jewish thought developed from no idea of life after death, just some sort of shadowy existence, to the time of Jesus when the Saducees continued that line, but the Pharisees, of whom Jesus appears to be, perhaps, did now teach there was life after death.
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Whoops, I just noticed something in this post. I have also read the theory that Jesus was an Essene, which makes sense when one compares the Gnostic writings to the Essene ones.
 
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DOC said:
Well the hope of blissful eternal life is one reason.
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Hope? I thought you were offering proof?

Another is peace in this life: John 14:27:
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I already have peace in this life, thank you.

ETA - something that's always confused me about the christian burial service is the phrase, "In sure and certain hope of the resurrection." If it's sure and certain what the heck is the hope for?
 
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DOC said:
Well, the hope of blissful eternal life is one reason. Another is peace in this life: John 14:27:

"Peace I leave with you, my peace I give unto you: not as the world giveth, give I unto you. Let not your heart be troubled, neither let it be afraid."

http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=John+14
from gateway.com
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How does peace in this life tie in with your accounts of the early followers too scared to sign their name and allegedly suffering persecution?
 
AWPrime said:
DOC said:
How many religions do you know that have spread rapidly and peacefully in a brutal militarily occupied land
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I don't think christianity actually has done that.
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From his other comments, it appears that DOC was referring to the period prior to Constantine's conversion. If that is the case, then he is correct. The spread of Christianity during that period was a peaceful. It should be noted, that it wasn't the Christianity we know today. The version that survived into modern day is the evolutionary descendant of the myriad of forms that existed during that time period.
 
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