The PG Film - Bob Heironimus and Patty

[Vortigern99]

Here's a crude MS Paint "crayon" overlay showing the same principle. It must be noted that with this frustrating software, ellipses cannot be moved once they have been placed on the image, so the arcs are not as perfectly aligned, nor as perfectly circular, as I would like them to be. Nonetheless, I think they demonstrate the principle quite well... don't you?

EDIT: To clarify since we're on a new page, what is being shown here is that the lengths of the limbs are placed along an arc circle, not along a flat plane.

 

[Vortigern99]

Gee, I guess my crayon-drawings aren't all "worthless scribbles".

The difference is that Hogarth's drawing is illustrating a known principle of anatomical measurement. Yours was attempting to show an error in Mangler's and Neltana's overlays, which error does not exist but is in fact a known principle of anatomical measurement.

 

[neltana]

I love Burne Hogarth's stuff. I have my copy of Dynamic Figure Drawing right here next to my drawing table!

Sweaty, DAZ Studio is a free download. The skeleton model isn't, but you could use one of the free models such as "Michael" to reproduce what is going on here. It isn't complex software...as a matter of fact, I had never used it until I started trying to reproduce Mangler's overlays.

Download this software and you should be able to easily see what a the arm should look like from any angle. It is great for guys like me who can never get foreshortening right!

It is free, so there is no reason not to!

 

[SweatyYeti]

I love Burne Hogarth's stuff. I have my copy of Dynamic Figure Drawing right here next to my drawing table!

Sweaty, DAZ Studio is a free download. The skeleton model isn't, but you could use one of the free models such as "Michael" to reproduce what is going on here. It isn't complex software...as a matter of fact, I had never used it until I started trying to reproduce Mangler's overlays.

Download this software and you should be able to easily see what the arm should look like from any angle. It is great for guys like me who can never get foreshortening right!

It is free, so there is no reason not to!

Thanks for that info, neltana!
I was considering asking you how long it took you to learn to use the DAZ Studio program.

I don't have time to do much of anything with it, right now....but I'll download it anyway, and try using it...sometime later.

 

[SweatyYeti]

The difference is that Hogarth's drawing is illustrating a known principle of anatomical measurement.

Yours was attempting to show an error in Mangler's and Neltana's overlays, which error does not exist but is in fact a known principle of anatomical measurement.

The important thing is that my illustration was accurate.

What I'm trying to do is to understand exactly why the arm length shrinks, in those 2 animations.

I just watched the Vision Realm computer-generated skeleton animation of Patty (there's an extended version of the animation in the "Extras" section of the LMS dvd), and the length of Patty's upper arm doesn't change as she swings her arm....and it's vertical length changes according to how the arc diagram shows it should change.


I'll post some still frames from it later......as soon as I have the time to.

 

[neltana]

Thanks for that info, neltana!
I was considering asking you how long it took you to learn to use the DAZ Studio program.

I don't have time to do much of anything with it, right now....but I'll download it anyway, and try using it...sometime later.

I have no doubt that you could be up and running and producing frames in a single evening. Just PM me if you have any technical problems.

 

[Astrophotographer]

The important thing is that my illustration was accurate.

A broken clock is right twice a day that does not mean it works very well. Your got your illustration from somebody else. However, it is nice to see you are learning how to measure things. I suggest you do the actual diagonal measurements and not just in the vertical direction.

 

[SweatyYeti]

I have no doubt that you could be up and running and producing frames in a single evening. Just PM me if you have any technical problems.

Thanks, neltana.

It'll probably be 2 or 3 weeks before I have the time to try the program....but if I have any questions, I'll ask 'ya.

 

[SweatyYeti]

A broken clock is right twice a day that does not mean it works very well. Your got your illustration from somebody else. However, it is nice to see you are learning how to measure things. I suggest you do the actual diagonal measurements and not just in the vertical direction.

Great post, Astro.

 

[Vortigern99]

FYI, I downloaded the DAZ Studio software in about twenty minutes, and now I'm using it to pose "Victoria" in all manner of lewd exciting artistically legitimate poses.

Never mind bigfoot, this digital posable chick in a sports bra is my new microcosm.

 

[neltana]

Yeah. Occasionally my wife looks at my screen and asks about the scantily clad women on the screen. I tell her that I'm just working on my foreshortening. I don't think she believes me.

 

[GT/CS]

Yeah. Occasionally my wife looks at my screen and asks about the scantily clad women on the screen. I tell her that I'm just working on my foreshortening. I don't think she believes me.

Keep it up and she'll foreshorten you.

 

[wolftrax]

What I'm trying to do is to understand exactly why the arm length shrinks, in those 2 animations.

I just watched the Vision Realm computer-generated skeleton animation of Patty (there's an extended version of the animation in the "Extras" section of the LMS dvd), and the length of Patty's upper arm doesn't change as she swings her arm....and it's vertical length changes according to how the arc diagram shows it should change.

Anytime something points towards you or away from you and then vertically it will appear to change length.

Look at this image, obviously the cat is not deformed and has a small head, short body, and huge foot.

 

[AtomicMysteryMonster]

What I'm trying to do is to understand exactly why the arm length shrinks, in those 2 animations.

Here's an edited repost of something I put together in the Munns Report thread:

The seeming length of an arm can appear longer or shorter than it really is based on arm position (including when the arm is swinging). This has been noted several times in the past.

Also, an examination of frames from a .gif of Bob H. in a Morris Bigfoot costume showed his arms appeared to be different lengths depending on their position. Here's some background on that.

 

[Astrophotographer]

Maybe Sweaty lives in "flatland".

 

[SweatyYeti]

Here's an edited repost of something I put together in the Munns Report thread:

The seeming length of an arm can appear longer or shorter than it really is based on arm position (including when the arm is swinging).
This has been noted several times in the past.

Also, an examination of frames from a .gif of Bob H. in a Morris Bigfoot costume showed his arms appeared to be different lengths depending on their position. Here's some background on that.

AMM.....where in these images, that you linked to....

....is there an arm that supports this claim of yours...

The seeming length of an arm can appear longer .... than it really is

IOW.....which arm is appearing longer than it truly is?

 

[SweatyYeti]

AtomicMysteryMonster/King Linko the 1st wrote:

Also, an examination of frames from a .gif of Bob H. in a Morris Bigfoot costume showed his arms appeared to be different lengths depending on their position.

And what specifically was the "gold nugget" that we can take out of these images?...

 

[AtomicMysteryMonster]

AMM.....where in these images, that you linked to...

....is there an arm that supports this claim of yours...

Oops, looks like I accidentally copy-pasted a picture of tube rather than Dfoot's other arm length demo. Getting back on topic...

IOW.....which arm is appearing longer than it truly is?

As I recall, you once said that "Patty's arms are clearly longer than a human's arms, proportionally speaking." The first image clearly shows Dfoot with an arm length that matches up to Patty's. So either you have to accept that it's an illusion or admit that Patty's arms aren't longer than a human's since Dfoot has arms of the same length.

And what specifically was the "gold nugget" that we can take out of these images?...

Tsk, tsk Sweaty...I explained that in the links related to those images. Did you miss the part where I pointed out what frames of the .gif created the illusion of longer arms when compared to some other frames?

 

[Vortigern99]

Sweaty, let's keep in mind that you challenged the legitimacy of the Poser7 and DAZ images (posted by Mangler and Neltana, respectively) on the basis of your opinion that an arm, regardless of its position, should extend to the same point along a flat line.

I then showed you, using examples from noted anatomists Leonardo da Vinci and Burne Hogarth, that the joints of the limbs are correctly placed along the points of a circle, not a line.

You then neglected to acknowledge that you had grasped this information in any way, despite your assurances that your aim was to understand how this principle worked.

Now you're barraging AMM with questions about what his linked images show, when it's perfectly clear that the images reveal the exact arc circle principle we've been discussing, and which you bewilderingly pretend doesn't exist.

Are you paying attention? Do you really care about this discussion? Do you really care about the acquisition of knowledge? Or are you intentionally posting obtuse messages and willfully ignoring all evidence that contradicts your phenomenally uninformed presuppositions?

I won't hold my breath waiting for a response.

 

[kitakaze]

I guess Sweaty didn't like the 1400. Too simple for the intellectually dishonest, I suppose.