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Red Envelope Day to protest abortion

UnrepentantSinner

A post by Alan Smithee
UnrepentantSinner
Joined
Aug 26, 2001
Messages
26,984
Location
Dallas, Texas
Looks like whoever came up with the idea to send President Obama 1,000,000 empty red envelopes to symbolize abortion have forgotten 9/11 and the Anthrax scare. At least this meaningless symbolic effort will help burn some stamps and make money for the Post Office.

The thing I was wondering when I heard about this is why didn't they do this while President Bush, ostensibly a pro-lifer, was still in office instead of waiting until now?
 
Now that's a creative idea. How about a "Blue Envelope Day" to support using brains in politics? Let's save the postal office by out-lobbying the lobbyists via mail ;)

I'm sure there are companies who can organize mass mailings really cheap. The address database would be really simple, though. Just one recipient, but please print a bazillion senders on the envelopes. Not like anyone would ever read them all :)

Yes, those "pro-lifers" ("anti-women") guys have a right to their opinion. Though I disagree with their ... argument ... thing ... stuff ... whatever their position is. :boggled:
 
Maybe these silly people can start sending anti-abortion hallmark cards too. This might stimulate the economy.
 
UnrepentantSinner said:
Looks like whoever came up with the idea to send President Obama 1,000,000 empty red envelopes to symbolize abortion have forgotten 9/11 and the Anthrax scare. At least this meaningless symbolic effort will help burn some stamps and make money for the Post Office.

The thing I was wondering when I heard about this is why didn't they do this while President Bush, ostensibly a pro-lifer, was still in office instead of waiting until now?
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They didn't do this while Bush was in office because he supported their position. They're doing it to Obama because he doesn't.
 
I like the idea, maybe we should start a green envolope day and send it to those
brainless wonders in texas.
 
thaiboxerken said:
Maybe these silly people can start sending anti-abortion hallmark cards too. This might stimulate the economy.
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We know you have thought that just maybe
You ought to get rid of your baby.
But life is so precious, you see
(A coat hanger's murder, 3rd degree).
So instead of aborting your fetus,
Come down to the clinic to meet us!
 
Wildy said:
Possibly, but you have to admit that "pro-life" is "anti-choice".
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Mmmmm... I don't think so. There are plenty of choices that can be made *prior to* conception.

That said, however, if genetic testing indicates a baby with serious problems... well *I* would still choose "life", but I don't think I would blame anyone who disagrees with me. Similar for rape.
 
I don't know anybody who's "pro-abortion." Nobody is out there getting knocked up on purpose just so they can enjoy the thrill of having a fetus sucked out of them.

Pro-choice is a simply a way of recognizing that every_pregnant_woman has the right to make her own choices about her own reproduction, even if those choices differ from what another woman in the same circumstances might make. No one should be forced to terminate a pregnancy against her will, to give up a baby for adoption against her will, or to carry a pregnancy to term against her will.
 
Sun Countess said:
I don't know anybody who's "pro-abortion." Nobody is out there getting knocked up on purpose just so they can enjoy the thrill of having a fetus sucked out of them.

Pro-choice is a simply a way of recognizing that every_pregnant_woman has the right to make her own choices about her own reproduction, even if those choices differ from what another woman in the same circumstances might make. No one should be forced to terminate a pregnancy against her will, to give up a baby for adoption against her will,
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I'm pretty much with you up to here. On the other hand, there is the "born alive" issue, admittedly rare. When abortion procedures fail, and babies are born alive - Obama believes (and voted this way in the Illinois legislature) that it's okay to discard a live baby whom the mother intended to abort. This doesn't exactly match your first paragraph, but it is brutally evil nonetheless.

or to carry a pregnancy to term against her will.
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change this to "or to become pregnant against her will" and I'm still with you. But, once pregnant, why kill the baby?
 
maddog said:
change this to "or to become pregnant against her will" and I'm still with you. But, once pregnant, why kill the baby?
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Because many people do not consider the above a baby with full rights and privileges equal to a woman.
 
But, once pregnant, why kill the baby?
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maddog, I'll respect Unrepentant Sinner's request to keep to the topic of the thread, but quixotecoyote summed things up pretty nicely. I do note your use of the term "baby" to describe what would accurately be called a zygote, embryo, or fetus, depending on the stage of development.
 
On the topic of the "Red Envelope Day": I don't like these "bully tactics". Politics shouldn't be made on the basis of "what the biggest pressure group can cook up this time". Maybe I'm too emotionally distant to these issues, but I like my politics based on past experience, science and rationality. Past experience suggests that outlawing abortion means back-alley practices and shady and dangerous procedures (coat hangers have been mentioned) and it means keeping the whole XX-chromosome part of the population under the thumb of the XY part. That sounds neither rational nor compassionate to me.

It's far too easy to rally people behind the weirdest of suggestions, just by being (or appearing to be) overtly emotional in the presentation of the case.

Now allow me to address the response I got to my posting.

maddog said:
Pro-life does NOT equal "anti-women". But, "pro-abortion" DOES equal "anti-life".
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Am I "pro-abortion"? That's unnecessarily black/white, IMO. I am in favor of permitting women the right to have an abortion, in a way that is medically and legally sound. I'm a man. I've got no idea what's it like to have a pregnancy, unwanted or otherwise. Who am I to tell someone else what to do to/with their body?

maddog said:
:rule10 you.
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I sense you have a very strong emotional investment in this issue.
 
quixotecoyote said:
thum_1026149c0a71943660.jpg
http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/vbimghost.php?do=displayimg&imgid=15718

Because many people do not consider the above a baby with full rights and privileges equal to a woman.
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That was my number one reason for ceasing to be a pro-life advocate in the first trimester. Why are we concerned about something without thoughts and is incapable of feeling pain?
 
RandFan said:
That was my number one reason for ceasing to be a pro-life advocate in the first trimester. Why are we concerned about something without thoughts and is incapable of feeling pain?
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... So you still advocate a pro-life position with respect to the other two trimesters?

I don't mean that to sound condescending. Personally, I do my best to stay out of abortion topics. I hate the fact that there really is no black and white, cut and dry, objective answer to the issue, and that no matter what one's opinion is, it will inevitably be steeped in some philosophy or another.

I'd be interested in hearing your opinions about where a woman's choice ends and a fetus' rights begin as I'm utterly lost as to how I should form my opinion.

I'm a biologist and so I'm no foolish enough to believe that human rights should be endowed to a person at conception, and I'm also no advocate of infanticide, meaning that somewhere in between those 10 months lies (at least in my mind) the beginning of "personhood".

Since I don't know where such personhood begins, I tend to avoid abortion conversations at all costs.

I don't mean to derail the thread by asking RandFan this, but it seems it has already delved into a debate about abortion rather than the red envelopes. If it will be a problem, feel free to PM me with your opinion RandFan.
 
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