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Plasma Cosmology - Woo or not

And standard cosmology does????

No body I repeate NO one knows what gravity is, there for YOUR model will always be some ad hoced made up pixy snot variables to bang that square peg into that round hole.

And you, like many others, are BLIND to see that! you base your whole cosmology on some 300 odd year old mathematical model.

That's your problem, it's so passe!

Well if a pixy snot theory made accurate and falsifiable predictions then pixy snot it would be. That is until some better elf dandruff theory comes along that can make better and more accurate falsifiable predictions, perhaps even explaining why the pixies have so much snot in the first place. Don’t happen to have any of those do you, I mean an actual theory and falsifiable predictions, with or without pixy snot and elf dandruff?
 
The MAJOR problem here is we have no idea what gravity IS?

ELECTRIC GRAVITY!

Wal Thornhill has a stab at what it is that makes more sense than a rubber sheet and warped space-time!

[qimg]http://www.holoscience.com/news/img/Electric%20gravity.jpg[/qimg]

The best thing gravity has going for it is:

and

[qimg]http://www.holoscience.com/news/img/Slow%20light.jpg[/qimg]



Food for thought for the vaunted Eot-Wash group!

Brilliant! Sol88 wants to do away with the last 104 years of scientific progress.
 
With the Pioneer anomaly being so small, I think that we better check the orders of magnitude differences between the ideas of EU and the observed mainstream physics.

As usual, Sol88 cannot "win" the discussion (e.g. the motion of the star around the centre of the galaxy) and then starts to come up with LOADS of other stuff (pioneer anomaly, breaking up of comets, cratering, etc. etc. etc.) instead of REALLY trying to answer questions and to show some real EU calculations to prove mainstream wrong. But as it is, Sol88 is incapable of doing any math whatsoever, so we should not expect anything from this troll. I think I have been more that generous showing numerical stuff. Now, I would like to see some real EU/PU numberical stuff. So Sol88 (yeah right!), Zeuzzz, Michael Mozina, Brantc, etc. etc. show us the money!!

Just one of these guys must be able to some calculations to show PU is superior to mainstream.
 
No body I repeate NO one knows what gravity is, there for YOUR model will always be some ad hoced made up pixy snot variables to bang that square peg into that round hole.

Acutally, no body, I repeat NO one knows what electromagnetic forces are!

You do realize this, Sol88, EM forces are just as unknown as gravity.

1. Why do masses attract eachoter?
2. Why do opposite charges attract eachother?

There is no why, there is only they do.
 
Acutally, no body, I repeat NO one knows what electromagnetic forces are!

You do realize this, Sol88, EM forces are just as unknown as gravity.

1. Why do masses attract eachoter?
2. Why do opposite charges attract eachother?

There is no why, there is only they do.

Yes they do, read the electric gravity link!

We've smashed enough elementary particles together to know about spin, charge etc etc

But gravity is all about mass and unless you find your holy grail, the Higgs Boson, in your 6 billion dollar toy (the LHC) then your Farked!

Easy to work out when you consider the orbits of electron around a nucleus, that's why electric gravity makes alot more sense than it just attracts!

There are parallels between electric gravity and why ferromagnetisim does what it does, .i.e. all the electron moving in lock step with each other!
 
Two simple words ‘human error’

Apparently we just don’t understand..

That we should convert English to metric when one is used during constriction and the other for operation.

That it is not a good idea when braking thruster fail a certification test to simply change the conditions of the test so they can be certified.

That flight operators should send the correct memory addresses when updating a spacecrafts software parameters.

Ok I concede that maybe part of the cause, but you'd think they'd work that chit out!

Metric or imperial to do you maths, LOL. :rolleyes:

Bloody yanks and poms! get with the program you mob!
 
With the Pioneer anomaly being so small, I think that we better check the orders of magnitude differences between the ideas of EU and the observed mainstream physics.

As usual, Sol88 cannot "win" the discussion (e.g. the motion of the star around the centre of the galaxy) and then starts to come up with LOADS of other stuff (pioneer anomaly, breaking up of comets, cratering, etc. etc. etc.) instead of REALLY trying to answer questions and to show some real EU calculations to prove mainstream wrong. But as it is, Sol88 is incapable of doing any math whatsoever, so we should not expect anything from this troll. I think I have been more that generous showing numerical stuff. Now, I would like to see some real EU/PU numberical stuff. So Sol88 (yeah right!), Zeuzzz, Michael Mozina, Brantc, etc. etc. show us the money!!

Just one of these guys must be able to some calculations to show PU is superior to mainstream.

There is nothing to "win" here, and no amount of maths is going to prove the point!

Case in hand SR and GR!! :confused: :rolleyes: :blush:

But observation will!!

How many times are you going to ad hoc something before re examining the under lying assumption, namely the Universe is NOT electrically neutral!! It's a fully charged environment :)
 
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How many times are you going to ad hoc something before re examining the under lying assumption, namely the Universe is NOT electrically neutral!! It's a fully charged environment

How many times are you going to present platitudes? When are you going to present anything substantial? I guess never.
 
Yes they do, read the electric gravity link!

We've smashed enough elementary particles together to know about spin, charge etc etc

We've smashed enough elementary particles together to know that statements like:

If I can use a simple analogy, light travels slowly like the transverse ripples on a pond surface; gravity travels swiftly and longitudinally, like the speed of sound in water. Once again, this is at odds with Einstein’s metaphysics because it reinstates Maxwell’s aether: Maxwell’s electromagnetic theory requires a medium. How can you wave nothing?

are ridiculous. Do you think these multi-billion dollar experiments would work if SR was just "metaphysics". Clueless.
 
Yes they do, read the electric gravity link!

No, the same question remains, why do charges attract or repel? The answer is virtual photons that are exchanged between the two. Have you seen virtual photons?

We've smashed enough elementary particles together to know about spin, charge etc etc

Doesn't say a thing, we have observed enough planetary systems, falling stones, to know a lot about that that is all there is about gravity and mass. Just knowing the pieces does not make you a watchmaker.

But gravity is all about mass and unless you find your holy grail, the Higgs Boson, in your 6 billion dollar toy (the LHC) then your Farked!

Ah Higgs, Schmiggs, have you seen any virtual photons lately?

Easy to work out when you consider the orbits of electron around a nucleus, that's why electric gravity makes alot more sense than it just attracts!

From (I guess) Sansbury's "theory":
The force between any two aligned electrostatic dipoles varies inversely as the fourth power of the distance between them and the combined force of similarly aligned electrostatic dipoles over a given surface is squared.

I don't think I understand what the bolded part means. Could you please explain, Sol88?

The result is that the dipole-dipole force, which varies inversely as the fourth power between co-linear dipoles, becomes the familiar inverse square force of gravity for extended bodies.

This would mean that all dipoles inside a body all have to be aligned. Is there any evidence for this? Would this not mean that all bodies are also magnetic then? I would think so.

But then he says:
The gravitational and inertial response of matter can be seen to be due to an identical cause. The puzzling extreme weakness of gravity (one thousand trillion trillion trillion trillion times less than the electrostatic force) is a measure of the minute distortion of subatomic particles in a gravitational field.

Ehhhhh wait! say that again?
Gravity is weak because the distortion of the subatomic particles is minute in a gravitational field?

But, in this theory it is the distortion of the subatomic particles, the so called dipoles, that create gravity. Talking about a snake biting itself in its tail.

BUNK!!!!!!!!
 
Sol88 - I cannot believe you'd seriously suggest that electric gravity idea, one which is falsifiable in an experiment by a competent school student.

Anyway,

The best thing gravity has going for it is:
‘Instantaneous’ gravity

A significant fact, usually overlooked, is that Newton's law of gravity does not involve time. This raises problems for any conventional application of electromagnetic theory to the gravitational force between two bodies in space, since electromagnetic signals are restricted to the speed of light. Gravity must act instantly for the planets to orbit the Sun in a stable fashion. If the Earth were attracted to where the Sun appears in the sky, it would be orbiting a largely empty space because the Sun moves on in the 8.3 minutes it takes for sunlight to reach the Earth.
Actually there's a relativistic effect that largely corrects for this - the Earth is attracted in the direction of where the Sun actually is rather than where it appears - there's a similar effect in electromagnetism too.

Also, the speed of gravity has been constrained and is very close to c, if not exactly c.

The rest of what you quoted is unbelievably ill-informed bunkum.
 
Please explain then the Pioneer effect with WRT the Eot-Wash findings?

And that is on topic, shirley?


BTW, how large is the Pioneer effect?

Care to actually state how large an effect it is in the general motion of the probe?

And just to let you lnow, you most likely won't be banned here. Your behavior is well within the MA.

But instead of changing the topic, you could try talking about PC.
 
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Yes they do, read the electric gravity link!

We've smashed enough elementary particles together to know about spin, charge etc etc

But gravity is all about mass and unless you find your holy grail, the Higgs Boson, in your 6 billion dollar toy (the LHC) then your Farked!

Easy to work out when you consider the orbits of electron around a nucleus, that's why electric gravity makes alot more sense than it just attracts!
Small point of clarification!

You do know that electron do not orbit the nucelus?

It is more that they exist in a quantum state of probability in the arae of the nucleus.

Orbital is an old term which has a new meaning.

Do planets actual do the quantum appearance thing?

http://www.orbitals.com/orb/index.html
There are parallels between electric gravity and why ferromagnetisim does what it does, .i.e. all the electron moving in lock step with each other!


You are getting pretty far out there!

Do you lnow what an 'approximate model' is?

Do you know the difference between the gravity model and the EM model?
 
Small point of clarification!

You do know that electron do not orbit the nucelus?

It is more that they exist in a quantum state of probability in the arae of the nucleus.

Orbital is an old term which has a new meaning.

Do planets actual do the quantum appearance thing?

http://www.orbitals.com/orb/index.html



You are getting pretty far out there!

Do you lnow what an 'approximate model' is?

Do you know the difference between the gravity model and the EM model?

sorry my bad,
the electrons are most likely to be found within a sphere around the nucleus of an atom
:rolleyes:

Interesting shapes there DD!

The blue color indicates a positive phase, while the orange color indicates a negative phase, with the phase taken as defined by Condon and Shortlle

2p0.gif


Is that a dipole I see?

From Holoscience

The%20atom.jpg


This model satisfies Einstein's view that there must be some lower level of structure in matter to cause resonant quantum effects. It is ironic that such a model requires the electric force between the charges to operate incomparably faster than the speed of light in order that the electron remain a coherent particle. It means that Einstein’s special theory of relativity, that prohibits signalling faster than light, must be repealed. A recent experiment verifies this.

Electromagnetic waves are far too slow to be the only means of signalling in an immense universe. Gravity requires the near-instantaneous character of the electric force to form stable systems like our solar system and spiral galaxies. Gravitationally, the Earth ‘sees’ the Sun where it is this instant, not where it was more than 8 minutes ago. Newton’s famous law of gravity does not refer to time.

Electric%20gravity.jpg


And an image from orbitals.com

3p0.gif


Mmmm....
 
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BTW, how large is the Pioneer effect?

Care to actually state how large an effect it is in the general motion of the probe?

And just to let you lnow, you most likely won't be banned here. Your behavior is well within the MA.

But instead of changing the topic, you could try talking about PC.

It was in the link, did you have a squiz at it?

The pioneer anomaly


It appears to cause a constant sunward acceleration of (8.74 ± 1.33) × 10−10 m/s2 for both spacecraft. If the positions of the spacecraft are predicted one year in advance based on measured velocity and known forces (mostly gravity), they are actually found to be some 400 km closer to the sun at the end of the year.It appears to cause a constant sunward acceleration of (8.74 ± 1.33) × 10−10 m/s2 for both spacecraft. If the positions of the spacecraft are predicted one year in advance based on measured velocity and known forces (mostly gravity), they are actually found to be some 400 km closer to the sun at the end of the year.

The effect is very small, but so is the spacecraft compared to the Sun!
 
Sol88 - I cannot believe you'd seriously suggest that electric gravity idea, one which is falsifiable in an experiment by a competent school student.

Anyway,


Actually there's a relativistic effect that largely corrects for this - the Earth is attracted in the direction of where the Sun actually is rather than where it appears - there's a similar effect in electromagnetism too.

Also, the speed of gravity has been constrained and is very close to c, if not exactly c.

The rest of what you quoted is unbelievably ill-informed bunkum.


Please explain
I cannot believe you'd seriously suggest that electric gravity idea, one which is falsifiable in an experiment by a competent school student.
.

What experiment would that be?
 
Commenting on the some-days-old post of Z's may seem out of order - I said I'd look at Anaconda's (electromagnetic) acceleration of charged particles talking point next - but it may be related; let's see how ...

Yes, In solids, liquids and gasses charges do cancel out. In plasma however they separate in a variety of highly complex an non linear ways. And yes, EM is amazingly more powerful than gravity.

In an earlier post I pointed out that even the Earth is charged up millions of coulombs, and the atmosphere contains a voltage of over 300,000 volts (as the atmosphere is a very poor conductor). Such reasons for how charge separates to create the lightning are unknown. But if magnitudes of charge separation that large, and that close to home, are still largely without an adequate reason for how they occur, the occurence of MUCH larger charge separation and huge EM effects is possible in space. The detailed work of Alfven and others on charge separation and plasma scalability could answer many of these questions, and is still being applied to this day.
There is an inescapable consequence of large charge separations and the ubiquity of free electrons in space (a consequence of overall charge neutrality, ionisation, and ordinary matter being composed of electrons plus protons and neutrons) - acceleration of those electrons.

And there is then another inescapable consequence, when you add the ubiquity of magnetic fields: synchrotron radiation ... which surely qualifies for Z's "huge EM effects [...] in space"!

So we arrive, in a fairly straight-forward way, at observations of synchrotron radiation as - potentially - excellent tests of these "the occurence of MUCH larger charge separation [...] in space" ideas.

Now presumably all "EU theorists" know this well, as would all proponents of PC ... which leads to the curious question of why Z hasn't cited dozens (or more) of papers (published in relevant peer-reviewed journals) establishing at least the plausibility of these ideas (per the cornucopia of astronomical observations).

Care to comment, Z?

A bit of evidence of large EM influences and charge separation that springs to mind is that spiral galaxies tend to spiral more in one direction than another, possibly implying a large scale magnetic field in region some 350 Mpc across. The alignment of the spins seems to point in direction close to that defined by anisotropies in the CBR. Also, theres an asymmetry in the Hubble expansion some 600 Mpc or more across, the Hubble constant is about 10% lower in some directions than in others, implying either an asymmetry in the process that creates the Hubble redshift, or velocities for galaxies of up to 3,000 km/sec.

Is the Cosmic "Axis of Evil" due to a Large-Scale Magnetic Field?
Authors: Michael J. Longo
http://arxiv.org/abs/astro-ph/0703694v2
Dated March 2007, but not apparently submitted to any journal yet ... I wonder why?

Does the Universe Have a Handedness?
Authors: Michael J. Longo
http://arxiv.org/abs/astro-ph/0703325v2
Some good work ... and as he notes, there have been other studies of the extent to which 'handedness' can be detected in the observations of spiral galaxies. The results are mixed; for example, one the Galaxy Zoo papers (Galaxy Zoo: the large-scale spin statistics of spiral galaxies in the Sloan Digital Sky Survey) finds any "violation of large-scale statistical isotropy in the distribution of projected spin vectors of spiral galaxies" to be marginal at best (and that there is indeed a bias ... in human observers' assignment of handedness, based on images!).

Anisotropy in the Hubble constant as observed in the HST Extragalactic Distance Scale Key Project results
Authors: M. L. McClure, C. C. Dyer
http://arxiv.org/abs/astro-ph/0703556v1

(An)isotropy of the Hubble diagram: comparing hemispheres
Authors: Dominik J. Schwarz, Bastian Weinhorst
arXiv:0706.0165v1 [astro-ph]
The possibility of the local universe - out to many hundreds of Mpc - being anisotropic is fascinating! It is an area that is likely to get a lot of attention in the coming decade or three.

It's rather too soon to characterise this anisotropy - if indeed it exists - so it's also much too soon to say what it might mean, cosmologically speaking.

However, I think you'll have to do a bit more work, Z, to show that there might be a connection between large-scale charge separation, or very large-scale, coherent magnetic fields, and any observed anisotropy in spiral galaxy spins or H0.
 
[qimg]http://www.orbitals.com/orb/orb/2p0.gif[/qimg]

Is that a dipole I see?

Bwahahahahaha! No, it is not.

I see we can now add quantum mechanics to the list of things you've demonstrated that you don't understand. That's not a dipole. It's an electron orbital, so both lobes are negatively charged. The color difference indicates a change in sign of the complex phase of the wave function, not its charge. But that is clearly too difficult an idea for you to understand. If you actually calculate the expectation value for the dipole moment for that wave function, you will (not surprisingly) find that it is zero.
 
Bwahahahahaha! No, it is not.

I see we can now add quantum mechanics to the list of things you've demonstrated that you don't understand. That's not a dipole. It's an electron orbital, so both lobes are negatively charged. The color difference indicates a change in sign of the complex phase of the wave function, not its charge. But that is clearly too difficult an idea for you to understand. If you actually calculate the expectation value for the dipole moment for that wave function, you will (not surprisingly) find that it is zero.
But he clearly does like pretty pictures! :D

Seems to be a rather common feature of posts by EU/PC proponents, doesn't it? I mean an apparent heavy reliance on pretty pictures to make their case ...
 

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