www.StopVisionFromFeeling.com - Volunteers Needed

[Akhenaten]

And I grow tired of defending myself against that which isn't even an issue other than in your minds.

How appropriately quixotic that you choose to defend against what you yourself describe as imaginary issues. No wonder you're tired.

 

[tsig]

How appropriately quixotic that you choose to defend against what you yourself describe as imaginary issues. No wonder you're tired.

I'm tired just from watching her wave her hands, dance around a point and moving the goalposts.

 

[VisionFromFeeling]

She is planning to go out into the streets and start soliciting volunteers to be read.

UncaYimmy... you're just turning everything around so that it agrees with your preconceived suspicions about a paranormal claimant. Lately, you are constantly spreading lies and misconceptions about me. Could you please stop?

You're making it sound as if I'm going out into the public to do psychic readings, when that is entirely not true. The study will be presented as a study into what impressions people make about their health and whether those impressions represent their actual health or not. There is no mention of anything paranormal what so ever, since that would not be necessary and we haven't established anything paranormal as of yet. According to what evidence is or is not available now I could be doing just that, looking at external impressions and basing my conclusions on that. Even if I beg to differ. But that's just me.

The information that is given on the volunteers' questionnaires clearly states that the volunteers will not find out what was assumed about their health. Because in case it would represent incorrect health information then that could cause distress to the person. UncaYimmy, it's not like I'm setting up a table and saying "come and get your psychic readings!" Stop it.

She is doing this with the "help" of the local skeptics group (FACT).

In my opinion Skeptics are the most reliable participants for any kind of study into a claimed paranormal phenomenon. Would you rather see me involve my friends in the study? And what do you mean by "help"? I couldn't do it without the participants. Obviously I can't approach volunteers and chat with them and have access to their questionnaires. Nor should I be the one who is left with my own questionnaires after the study.

I have also provided a waiver that clearly states that the study is designed entirely by myself and that it is not endorsed by FACT. The participants, although members of FACT, do not represent FACT during the time of the study. Conclusions drawn on the study are not endorsed by FACT. I am not using their name, or credibility. All I want is reliable participants. The study is not a test. It is not designed to provide evidence in favor of the claim. I thought I had made all of that very clear, but it seems that your preconceived ideas are clearer in your mind than is what is actually going on.

It is my opinion that she is using them to give herself an air of legitimacy.

Skeptics are the most reliable participants I can think of, so that I can personally better trust the way the data is handled and the outcome of the study. I am leaving my questionnaires, the volunteers' questionnaires, the controls' questionnaires, all paperwork of the study in the hands of others, and I feel I can trust it in the hands of Skeptics. I have no reason to suspect them of not handling it responsibly. I wouldn't even trust my own friends with this! I take the study seriously, even if you don't. Furthermore I can trust the observations and conclusions made by the local Skeptics. They would not be swayed into agreeing with the paranormal claim and are able to see to facts and evidence, and they have already proven themselves to be of that quality. I see no higher quality of participants than the Skeptics.

That aside, the fact remains is that she is taking this thing to the general public.

I already answered to that.

And she's documenting it all on her website.

What on earth is wrong with that?!

*If this post is moved to another thread I would ask that UncaYimmy's post #239 is also moved. If people are allowed to post misleading accusations against me here and I am not allowed to respond to them here then there is something wrong with the JREF. You can't just represent one (and false) version here.

 

[VisionFromFeeling]

I'm tired just from watching her wave her hands, dance around a point and moving the goalposts.

The goal is and has been around my claim. Which is the claim of correlating medical perceptions. It is Forum Skeptics who move around by trying to force me to test other things that are not my paranormal claim.

 

[desertgal]

The goal is and has been around my claim. Which is the claim of correlating medical perceptions. It is Forum Skeptics who move around by trying to force me to test other things that are not my paranormal claim.

No, you can't lay that one at the skeptic's feet - although it's a perfect example of how you treat people here like crap by foisting the blame onto them.

YOU continue to make the other unverified, unsubstantiated claims. You have from the beginning. Without that, the issue of testing them would never have come up.

If you wanted to stick to your main claim, then that is the only claim you should have made here.

Which means that trying to "smell" the difference between real flowers and synthetic ones from a distance, and with glass in the way, should make an excellent test without involving medical tests.

Madalch! I didn't recognize you without the green creature picture! As always, when Madalch does post, it is brilliant. This is a wonderful test, and I would do it!

How do we make flowers that are visually indistinguishable from real ones?

Please indicate the part where Madalch "forced" you to agree?

 

[Ashles]

It is Forum Skeptics who move around by trying to force me to test other things that are not my paranormal claim.

Then why do you make other paranormal claims if you have no interest in ever testing them?

Why do you make other paranormal claims if, when questioned, you claim they are weak and unreliable. Weak and unreliable to the extent it is unclear why you would even believe you had them in the first place?

Why do you make other paranormal claims which would be extremely suitable for quick easy and simple testing, and then simply refuse to test them, even though such tests would add credibility to your main claim.

Anita, how would you view somebody who said they could perform every feat you said you could, but with a greater level of accuracy? What questions might you ask them?

 

[VisionFromFeeling]

Most of the "other claims" that you speak about are excerpts taken from my website, where I present them to give a background of my paranormal claim of medical perceptions. I think that my experiences of synesthesia are interesting and relevant to the discussion about my experience of medical perceptions. I have one and only one paranormal claim which I wish to have tested and that is the claim of correlating medical perceptions.

 

[desertgal]

Most of the "other claims" that you speak about are excerpts taken from my website, where I present them to give a background of my paranormal claim of medical perceptions. I think that my experiences of synesthesia are interesting and relevant to the discussion about my experience of medical perceptions. I have one and only one paranormal claim which I wish to have tested and that is the claim of correlating medical perceptions.

And yet another lie. You made most of these claims HERE. They were responded to HERE. You agreed to testing them HERE. This can be proven by a search of the original thread.

(I'm sorry, Darat, I completely lost track of what thread I was in...violation of the mod box was not intentional. It will not happen again.)

 

[Ashles]

Most of the "other claims" that you speak about are excerpts taken from my website, where I present them to give a background of my paranormal claim of medical perceptions. I think that my experiences of synesthesia are interesting and relevant to the discussion about my experience of medical perceptions. I have one and only one paranormal claim which I wish to have tested and that is the claim of correlating medical perceptions.

I am going to respond to this question in the other thread as, unlike you, I don't want to be suspended for ignoring the mods repeated instructions to keep this thread about the website.

 

[Uncayimmy]

UncaYimmy... you're just turning everything around so that it agrees with your preconceived suspicions about a paranormal claimant. Lately, you are constantly spreading lies and misconceptions about me. Could you please stop?

I cannot stop what I am not doing. What I need you to stop doing is accusing me lying when you have have no basis for such an accusation.

You're making it sound as if I'm going out into the public to do psychic readings, when that is entirely not true.

The issue I was addressing was someone arguing that you are unknown outside of this forum and that you are doing nothing outside of this forum. That assumption is incorrect. Your Wall o' Text does not contradict my statement.

Therefore, you must stop accusing me of lying.

UncaYimmy, it's not like I'm setting up a table and saying "come and get your psychic readings!" Stop it.

I never said you were. Stop it.

In my opinion Skeptics are the most reliable participants for any kind of study into a claimed paranormal phenomenon.

How does this contradict my opinion that you are doing it to give your "investigation" an air of legitimacy?

I have also provided a waiver that clearly states that the study is designed entirely by myself and that it is not endorsed by FACT.

I think FACT is foolish for engaging you in your "study" under conditions they do not endorse.

The participants, although members of FACT, do not represent FACT during the time of the study. Conclusions drawn on the study are not endorsed by FACT. I am not using their name, or credibility.

Your study page (http://www.visionfromfeeling.com/study.html) is littered with references to the group and how much they have helped you. In fact you mention Dr. Carlson's name 23 times. Waiver or not, you are using their credibility.

 

[wardenclyffe]

I think www.stopvisionfromfeeling.com is harmless. I also think it's pointless.

I was a big supporter of UncaYimmy's initial attempt at a moderated one-on-one thread with VfF. I took some heat for supporting it, but I felt that if both parties in the thread participated in the way it was originally presented, it had a chance of being beneficial. VfF chose to quit participating very early on. Others were worried that VfF would only post in the moderated thread with UncaYimmy. I knew she'd continue posting in the open threads. She likes posting too much to confine herself to a moderated interview. Frankly, we all do.

I think that's the main reason that UncaYimmy's site exists, because the moderators keep moderating. But it appears that the JREF Forum will always have an unmoderated thread about VfF. As soon as one thread is moderated or shut down, someone starts a new one. Right now, we have our choice between the split-thread from this one and the thread called "More Vision From Feeling Claims." Who knows? Those threads may end up being moderated, too.

On UncaYimmy's site, one gets the immediate satisfaction of posting something and being able to read it a second later. I don't know why this is so important, but it is. I feel it to. It's far less satisfying to post in a moderated thread, so UncaYimmy's site is there for instant gratification, but since there's always an open thread here, there's no need to go to UncaYimmy's.

Also, for now at least, it's like a private club for those who've followed all the VfF threads here. Yes, anyone can join, but the only place one will learn about it is here. Newcomers here are not treated particularly well in the VfF threads. They are told (not directly, but in no uncertain terms) that their opinions and suggestions don't matter unless they've read every post in every VfF thread. I can't believe how one member of the FACT Skeptics group began posting in the first thread and he was basically drummed out of the forum. He could have been a valuable tool, since he meets her face to face each month, but he did not feel welcome here. Aside from how VfF is treated, this is the bullying behavior of "meanies."

There's no one person to whom I'm referring. Some are guilty and some are not, but the impression I get is of a school of sharks waiting to attack. I think many more people would be open to skepticism and critical thinking if they encountered skeptics who were a little less abrasive.

I know that we've all gotten frustrated with VfF for very good reasons. I know a lot of posts were made out of frustration. But being frustrated and angry is not in and of itself a reason to post. VfF is not the only compulsive poster in these threads. We all like to be read, including me---I'm posting right now.

Perhaps I'm wrong. Perhaps the new website will grow into something significant and important. I hope so. But it currently seems like a small club of folks who want to stop VfF, but fear they might succeed at the same time. They seem to love the game as much as she does. Everyone's name is all over the threads here, not just hers (and mine).

I don't know. I don't feel like I've made a single clear point here, but people are reading me, and sometimes that's all that matters.

Ward

ETA: For what it's worth, I've read every post by and about VfF. I don't believe that that means my opinion is more valuable.

 

[lionking]

Very good post ward.

 

[Uncayimmy]

I think www.stopvisionfromfeeling.com is harmless. I also think it's pointless.

LOL! That's how you open a post!

Perhaps I'm wrong. Perhaps the new website will grow into something significant and important. I hope so. But it currently seems like a small club of folks who want to stop VfF, but fear they might succeed at the same time. They seem to love the game as much as she does. Everyone's name is all over the threads here, not just hers (and mine).

I hope it grows well beyond where it's at today. We'll see how it goes. I would not disagree that we also like the game (at least I do). For me, at least, it beats the hell out of some of the silly threads over in Community.

ETA: For what it's worth, I've read every post by and about VfF. I don't believe that that means my opinion is more valuable.

I'd much rather argue with someone over the interpretation of facts than argue with someone who doesn't know the facts.

 

[wardenclyffe]

UncaYimmy said:
"I'd much rather argue with someone over the interpretation of facts than argue with someone who doesn't know the facts."

Yeah, me too. Unfortunately that limits your argument group to about a half dozen people who all basically agree with you anyway (except VfF). I also think there are ways to get people up to speed other than telling them to read thousands of posts. It's easier to say "read the posts," but we all know that no one's going to. It's more work to (gently) explain what roads we've already been down and what tests we've already suggested. It is more work, but I think it ultimately pays off.

This might be something that the new website can do. If the thread about VfF's many, many claims turns into a concise listing of what she claims and what tests she's rejected, then that will be a handy link for newcomers. If people can read a quick list of everything from communicating with Australian ghost-dinosaurs (outside of Australia) to seeing individual nitrogen atoms through a metal canister, they'll get caught up fairly quickly.

Again, I hope the website turns into something valuable, but right now I don't see what it offers that I don't already find here.

Ward

 

[Uncayimmy]

Again, I hope the website turns into something valuable, but right now I don't see what it offers that I don't already find here.

Volunteers are needed - that's why I posted here with a clearly unfinished site. It's a LOT to distill. Even if you took one piece, say the fiasco with arranging the "study" in the park, and broke it down into something manageable, that would be great.

 

[wardenclyffe]

I knew you were gonna turn this around and try to con me into doing work.

Ward

 

[Uncayimmy]

I knew you were gonna turn this around and try to con me into doing work.

Okay, that was sorta funny. But being a VFF fan, a better response would have been.

I intend to do that. Eventually.

 

[wardenclyffe]

I had forgotten that VfF always accuses you of trying to turn things around on you. I wasn't trying to imitate her. I'm just really lazy.

Ward

 

[desertgal]

Also, for now at least, it's like a private club for those who've followed all the VfF threads here. Yes, anyone can join, but the only place one will learn about it is here. Newcomers here are not treated particularly well in the VfF threads. They are told (not directly, but in no uncertain terms) that their opinions and suggestions don't matter unless they've read every post in every VfF thread.

My only objection is when they are unclear about the extent and nature of VfF's claims, and, yet, choose to armchair quarterback. That defies the principles of critical thinking.

I can't believe how one member of the FACT Skeptics group began posting in the first thread and he was basically drummed out of the forum. He could have been a valuable tool, since he meets her face to face each month, but he did not feel welcome here. Aside from how VfF is treated, this is the bullying behavior of "meanies."

Point taken. That WAS my fault, and I apologize.

There's no one person to whom I'm referring. Some are guilty and some are not, but the impression I get is of a school of sharks waiting to attack. I think many more people would be open to skepticism and critical thinking if they encountered skeptics who were a little less abrasive.

Point taken. I freely admit, I can be abrasive. I don't intend to "attack"-I simply have little patience when someone so intelligent, and has so much going for her, wastes so much time and energy with what is, essentially, a fantasy. There isn't anything wrong with fantasy, we all indulge in them to some degree or another, but I don't think anyone here would argue that Anita takes it way too far. I'd react much the same way if one of my kids did the same thing. She could be doing something far more productive and real. It's a waste. And, of course, her arrogance, even with a veneer of civility, is aggravating for everyone.

But, I will try to be less abrasive.

 

[Akhenaten]

There seems to have been some discussion on whether VfF wll eventually take her show on the road and start putting people at risk, and whether this should be stopped from happening.

Please don't refer to my ability as possibly being an "unusual processing error". It leads to very useful scientific hypotheses that I can use in my career and it has lead to very many interesting accurate observations.

What do my observations add to research? By doing what I described in an earlier post and call "vibrational algebra" I can suggest the new design of molecular structures of medicines for specific purposes.

As an instrument it would function independently of me. It would read the vibrational pattern that corresponds to the vibrational aspect of for instance the molecule. (Vibrational aspect is what I and many physicists believe to be the more fundamental composition of matter, on a scale deeper than the atoms.) Vibrational information from different sources could be combined to calculate a resulting vibrational aspect and make predictions, and is based on not numbers but on the natural interaction of vibrational patterns. I am headed toward taking a Masters in Optical Engineering and who knows, maybe I will build such an instrument.

Don't worry, by the time I have test with the IIG I am sure there will be some publicity and hey maybe you can see me on TV and tell everybody that you talked to me back in the days?

My knowledge in anatomy and medicine is much more vast from the perceptions of my ability, than they are based on knowledge that I've learned in the world.

The truth is that I receive accurate information about the health of people. The question is is this the case of extrasensory perception or are there other, down to earth explanations to this?

The information I receive contradicts with what my assumptions would have been. I can use cold reading when I use my ordinary senses but that only leads to assumptions, and I am always more confident in what I "have seen" with the ability.

The ability that I want to test is detection of medical information.

What's wrong with you is that you can not accept that I have to meet you in person in order to attempt a psychic medical diagnose.

My medical information from live persons is very reliable and always reliable.

My information from live persons is incredibly specific and never vague. Vasectomy. Not "you've had some sort of operation in your pelvic region, or is it maybe the abdomen?". Reproductive cysts. Not "there's something wrong with your reproductive system, is it perhaps that there is a pain, or that there might be cancer?" Cramp of the small intestine in a very specific region below the sternum, 1.5 x 4 cm. Not "it's like you have a cramp in your stomach sometimes, perhaps it is one of the intestines?"

I approach having a medical diagnose test with live persons very passionately.

I meet with a person for the very first time and we've only known each other for a few hours. I decide to confide in him that I perceive health information and ask if I could try with him.

I sense plenty of health issues with the little girl and will send the information to you in a private post, at which you are entirely free to post it here if you so choose.

*The baby's body contains more water than is normal for babies of her age and size. Normally babies contain more of the dense, yellow fat tissue than she does. She has water where fat should be. She is also lacking on nutrients, specifically the ones that build tissue (fat and protein) as opposed to vitamins and minerals. There is a lot of water in the front forehead part of the head, although not causing any pressure against the brain and is harmless.
*The liver has an issue that would probably be helped by certain vitamins. The liver is darker than normal and slightly denser and harder than normal.
*There may be a slight drawback in what her awareness and learning level should be, however as an older girl and grown woman she would be fine.

I am sorry to hear about the little girl's health problems. We conclude from my picture test with you that I am unable to detect health problems from pictures posted over the internet. Thank you for clarifying this, even though the results were as I had expected. And let's proceed toward medical diagnose with live persons.

I have made correct diagnose from pictures and television in the past, and whether truly so or due to confirmation bias I can not recall a single incorrect instance.I have verified information from television, for instance being from Sweden when I describe the health of lesser known American celebrities on television who I have never seen before, friends confirm the information. These aspects of the perceptions are less frequent and not as interesting as what I perceive from persons in life.

If there were a set of rules and regulations for psychic readings I would like to read them. How about you Forum members type up some rules? Even with the best of intentions I realize that dispensing medical information can be potentially harmful *, although I have my own idea of proper conduct I would love to read more about it.

Etcetera . . .


However, this post best sums up my concerns in this regard:

I am concerned with the possible risks involved and although I take all measures I can think of (except that of completely abstaining from giving out the information) I worry that I might cause some harm without intending or expecting it. *

I worry about it too. That's why I think Unca Yimmy's site is a good idea.


* Bolding provided by Por-Nepher, "The Rock", Amunsneffet. Contact us soon for all your quote mining and other quarrying needs.