Molten Steel

[BigAl]

I assumed it was scientists as that is the logical source of the information given to Mr. Voorsanger [and Brian Williams]. Although I have not been able to verify this, I still believe that is the case.

Do you think Mr. Voorsanger and Brian Williams just made up "fused together by intense heat"?

"Fused together by intense heat" doesn't indicate "molten". It's imprecise English spoken by a non-specialist and aimed at a non-technical audience.

 

[Christopher7]

Ni-Cads don't work in UPS applications.

Reverse logic. Do you have a source for what the batteries actually were and how much metal they contained?

If not, don't make any claims to that effect.

You did not respond to or acknowledge the fact that if it were lead it would have run off when it melted at 327[FONT=&quot]°[/FONT]C [620[FONT=&quot]°[/FONT]F].

 

[Christopher7]

I assumed it was scientists as that is the logical source of the information given to Mr. Voorsanger [and Brian Williams]. Although I have not been able to verify this, I still believe that is the case.

Do you think Mr. Voorsanger and Brian Williams just made up "fused together by intense heat"?

"Fused together by intense heat" doesn't indicate "molten". It's imprecise English spoken by a non-specialist and aimed at a non-technical audience.

It does when the first part of the sentence is:
"molten steel and concrete and all these things all fused by the heat into one single element"

You did not answer the question. Does that mean you are a coward?

Do you think Mr. Voorsanger and Brian Williams just made up "fused together by intense heat"?

 

[BigAl]

Reverse logic. Do you have a source for what the batteries actually were and how much metal they contained?

NiCad isn't used for UPS applications. Battery UPS systems use Lead-acid batteries.


The lead would be in the tons for any system so large to require structural floor enforcement. A document cited earlier reported that the floor had been reinforced.

 

[Sunstealer]

Wooooooooooooooooooooooosh! Wow, what was that sound? Must be Sunstealer's post either going far over C7's head or being totally ignored by him. Now why would that be? Either C7 starts his diatribe by looking at the latest page and/or he ignores the posts that cause him psychological discomfort or something else perhaps. C7 - care to answer some of my refutations and questions or are you going to hide?

 

[TjW]

No one has provided a source to establish that the batteries were lead-acid, as opposed to nickel-cadmium, or how much lead there would have been if they were.

In any case, the molten metal falling from the tower was in the 1000-1400 [FONT=&quot]°[/FONT]C range. Jet fuel/office fires are not hot enough to heat tons of any metal to those temperatures.
Furthermore, lead would have melted and run out thru the hole made by a landing gear [or other piece of the airplane] as soon as it melted at around 327[FONT=&quot]°[/FONT]C [620[FONT=&quot]°[/FONT]F]

I don't know if it was.

There were any number of other materials besides steel in the towers contents. Big UPS are lead-acid simply because that's the most economical way to do it.
Since the 80th floor stream of material is the only one you're willing to make a claim about, you first need some way to show that it was steel or iron. Color is not sufficient.
I understand it's sufficient for you. But you are not the people you're trying to convince. If you want to convince people, you're going to have to show better evidence.
Given the position you've staked out, I don't see any reasonable way for you to provide it.

 

[Sunstealer]

Inappropriate and childish name calling is the rule here. Since you are going to keep repeating this question I will point out why I did not respond.

So go on then!

1 - Please explain in your own words how you think thermite works?
Thermite melts steel by burning at 4500[FONT=&quot]°[/FONT]F.
You know this so your question is just a sarcastic diversion

C7 - Nil point. He asked you a question about how thermite works not what it is capable of doing! This clearly shows that you don't know how thermite works even though there are several links in this thread and mountains of information a googling away. Why do you not have the inclination to even find out a single thing about thermite/mate other than shouting "Dude, it melts steel". You can't even do the simplest of tasks and it's plainly obvious that you do not understand this equation

Fe₂O₃ + 2Al --> Al₂0₃ +2Fe

Hint: learn some Chemistry.

2 - Please tell us how long you think 'thermite' burns for and at what temperature it burns at.
You know the answer so your question is just another unnecessary diversion.

How on earth can he know how long you think thermite burns for? What is he? Some sort of mind reader? It's plainly obvious that you don't want to give an answer because you either don't know, are fearful that what you say is wrong (even though you've been shown) or that the (correct) answer that you give demolishes your own pet theory. And you wonder why we call you dishonest and a liar.

3 - Please then explain, in your own words, how molten steel can be found amongst rubble and what fueled the fires to keep it molten!
The question calls for speculation which will be inevitably answered with more childish insults.
I have answered this many times. New posters come along and ask the same questions in a blatantly obvious attempt to engage in an endless pissing match.

So what's the harm in repeating yourself? God knows we've had to repeat ourselves to you far more than once. Why don't you give the common courtesy of atleast outlining your theory rather than hiding away using childish slogans such as "speculation" when ultimately that's all you have.

4 - Please tell us what material you think an excavators bucket is made from, including the teeth and nuts/bolts used to attach the teeth/cutting edge.
You know the answer to this question so again it is just a sarcastic argumentative waste of space.

No it's not. He is asking you to examine your statements knowing full well that you know that these buckets are made of steel. It's perfectly reasonable because it show that you ignore the material properties of the digger buckets to support your own position. This is self delusion. Everyone can see this. Take a step back and look at it from a non C7, non debunker, neutral view. Just take your mind away from CTs, JREF and apply real world knowledge. It's not ahrd to see why steel digger buckets are going to have issues with a material hotter than the melting point of what the buckets are made from.

5 - Please tell us which contractors and specifically which machine operator reported molten steel.
Asked and answered many times. Either go back and find the answer or google "911,witnesses,steel".

OK - this one is a bit harsh and I think it's unfair. I was going to answer the questions myself as a point to C7 and at question 5 I had to say, "I do not know". Which is fair. However,f I was making a claim I would make the effort to find out.

6 - Please tell us the locations of these pools of molten steel.
Asked and answered many times.
If you will take the time to read the witness accounts you will know what is known about the location of the molten steel.

So if you know so easily why do you avoid the question and obfuscate? If he asks you and you know, then just tell him! How hard can it be or do you not know?

What are you so afraid of? Why doesn't your vast knowledge and understanding let you tell him exactly what you know? Why do you resort to such mealy mouthed responses? Surely more than 2 lines per question is worthy of such interest bearing in mind what you claim and the consequent ramifications?

Come on C7 - spit it out man. If you know so much then give us a proper history.

 

[bje]

I assumed it was scientists as that is the logical source of the information given to Mr. Voorsanger [and Brian Williams]. Although I have not been able to verify this, I still believe that is the case.

Do you think Mr. Voorsanger and Brian Williams just made up "fused together by intense heat"?

No, you did not "assume" that. You specifically stated as fact that Voorsanger got his information from "government scientists." Why would you repeatedly state that as FACT when you knew you had no such facts?

So you admit now to having lied repeatedly. I knew that all along.

Perhaps you would consider apologizing for that.

 

[funk de fino]

Reverse logic. Do you have a source for what the batteries actually were and how much metal they contained?

If not, don't make any claims to that effect.

You did not respond to or acknowledge the fact that if it were lead it would have run off when it melted at 327[FONT=&quot]°[/FONT]C [620[FONT=&quot]°[/FONT]F].

You would just say the source was faked or lying.

Whos to say the lead would not pool in one place and fall out later? You are speculating a few lines after saying you wouldn't.

 

[Christopher7]

There were any number of other materials besides steel in the towers contents.

There were NO other metals in sufficient quantity to account for the tons of molten metal seen falling.

Big UPS are lead-acid simply because that's the most economical way to do it.

That's JERFer speak for "I don't have a source but I won't admit it."

Since the 80th floor stream of material is the only one you're willing to make a claim about, you first need some way to show that it was steel or iron.

[FONT=&quot]"When you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth."[/FONT]

Color is not sufficient.

It is sufficient to assess the approximate temperature.

 

[dtugg]

Has Chris done anything about his absolute proof of an inside job besides cry on the Internet? No? Well I am shocked!

 

[Christopher7]

You would just say the source was faked or lying.

You know that is not true. When given conclusive information, I change my position. You have seen me do this.

Whos to say the lead would not pool in one place and fall out later? You are speculating a few lines after saying you wouldn't.

I read somewhere that the molten steel ran out thru a hole made by a landing gear or something. I'll see if i can find it.

ETA:

 

[Mercutio]

There were NO other metals in sufficient quantity to account for the tons of molten metal seen falling.

Wait... Tons of molten metal were seen falling?

C7, can you even give one bit of evidence to support this? Hell, even your misquoted experts did not say this; this is new, isn't it? Your witnesses believed they saw molten metal much later, didn't they? Tons? Falling?

Are you making stuff up again?

 

[Mercutio]

You know that is not true. When given conclusive information, I change my position. You have seen me do this.

We have also seen you not do this. Far more often.

Someone who habitually lies does not get a pass because he has told the truth once. One cannot claim as a trait something that one has done only rarely.

 

[Christopher7]

Wait... Tons of molten metal were seen falling?

C7, can you even give one bit of evidence to support this?

This "Debunking" video says it was about 30 tons.
@ 2:54
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DhHzMttUKO0

 

[Christopher7]

Why would you repeatedly state that as FACT when you knew you had no such facts?

Now you are lying. I noticed my mistake and rephrased it in my next post.

This on going personal attack is typical and indicative of this forum.

 

[ravdin]

Now you are lying. I noticed my mistake and rephrased it in my next post.

This on going personal attack is typical and indicative of this forum.

You would be a lot more believable if you would stick to the facts instead of whining about your treatment on the forum. If you want to educate us with your superior command of the facts, then have at it. If you don't, then what are you doing here?

When you get angry because we're not taking you seriously, it just confirms for us why we don't take you seriously.

 

[Christopher7]

You would be a lot more believable if you would stick to the facts

You guys have a lovely sense of irony.

What facts relevant to the subject have you posted?

 

[funk de fino]

You know that is not true. When given conclusive information, I change my position. You have seen me do this.

I have also seen you cry fake at photos. Just cause you back up one time doies not mean this means you do it everytime. I had to drag it kicking and screaming out of you that you made a false claim about me and you still did not retract in an adult manner.

I read somewhere that the molten steel ran out thru a hole made by a landing gear or something. I'll see if i can find it.

ETA:

[qimg]http://img507.imageshack.us/img507/3366/bonefragmentsms9.jpg[/qimg]

And? Cannot see images from that site over here.

 

[ravdin]

You guys have a lovely sense of irony.

What facts relevant to the subject have you posted?

You want relevant facts? Fine.

The terrorist attacks of September 11, 2001 on US soil were planned by al Qaida under the leadership of Osama bin Laden. That morning, 19 Islamic terrorists simultaneously hijacked four commercial airlines. Two of them were intentionally crashed into the Twin Towers of the World Trade Center, causing both buildings to collapse within two hours. A third crashed into the Pentagon, and the fourth plane crash landed into a field in Pennsylvania. There were no survivors from any of the flights.

You must have a lot of perseverance to make it this long, but after 85 pages you have not given me one reason to doubt these facts.