Hokulele - kurious_kathy Book Challenge

[JetLeg]

I noticed that in the first half this post, you are once again focusing solely on the Abrahamic religions. This question is not meant to be snarky, but do you have any experience with other religions? I am honestly curious.

(And not with a "k", damn it!)

Well...

I have experience with buddhism. Search my very early threads if you want to.

I am not sure whether buddhism, hinduism, confucianism are "religions" in the sense that the abrahamic are. They are much less faith-based, and much more philosophy based.

So I usually mean the three abrahamic ones by the term "religion".

----

And generally speaking, I am not so interested in the beliefs of people. If someone _thinks_ something, even if he has some vague unidentified reason, it is much better than a belief. For example, I have thought deeply about some books, and I find certain books better than others. I cannot bring evidence to prove it... But this is not something that I inherited from my parents, or took passively from my environment, or from an authority figure. I thought about it, and put mental effort into it, though it would still be hard to explain my reasons.

 

[JetLeg]

(And not with a "k", damn it!)

Are you sure, Hoculele?

 

[Hokulele]

Well...

I have experience with buddhism. Search my very early threads if you want to.

I am not sure whether buddhism, hinduism, confucianism are "religions" in the sense that the abrahamic are. They are much less faith-based, and much more philosophy based.

So I usually mean the three abrahamic ones by the term "religion".

I would disagree, but that is a semantic discussion for a different thread. You may want to examine the core tenets of Judaism, for example.

And generally speaking, I am not so interested in the beliefs of people. If someone _thinks_ something, even if he has some vague unidentified reason, it is much better than a belief. For example, I have thought deeply about some books, and I find certain books better than others. I cannot bring evidence to prove it... But this is not something that I inherited from my parents, or took passively from my environment, or from an authority figure. I thought about it, and put mental effort into it, though it would still be hard to explain my reasons.

Well, that is part of the reaon for our disagreement, then. I am interested in the beliefs of other people, and almost every single one of them does have some sort of personal justification behind it. Granted, it isn't always what I would consider rational justification, but by examining their justifications, I can better examine how I came to the conclusions I have drawn on various philosophical topics.

In addition, I wouldn't put too much faith in your own mental effort and reasoning. There isn't enough time to rethink every thought. Some of the conclusions I have drawn are based on the reasoning of others.

I am also a bit confused as to what you mean by "vague undefined reasons" and how that differs from faith.

Are you sure, Hoculele?

 

[JetLeg]

I would disagree, but that is a semantic discussion for a different thread. You may want to examine the core tenets of Judaism, for example.

Hm... You mean that you think Judaism isn't faith based?

What are the core tenets of Judaism, in your opinion?

Well, that is part of the reaon for our disagreement, then. I am interested in the beliefs of other people, and almost every single one of them does have some sort of personal justification behind it.

yup.

I am also a bit confused as to what you mean by "vague undefined reasons" and how that differs from faith.

Well... I think I gave a good example. I really thought deeply why a certain book is good. I put mental effort into it. But it doesn't mean that I can easily explain why it is so to another person...

 

[Hokulele]

Hm... You mean that you think Judaism isn't faith based?

What are the core tenets of Judaism, in your opinion?

I think it was Holler Hoojer who mentioned Hillel in another thread, but his summary is pretty apt.

"That which is hateful to you, do not do to your fellow. That is the whole Torah; the rest is the explanation; go and learn."

Additionally, the way I understand it, the term "God's chosen people" isn't a mark of entitlement, but responsibility. In other words, it is their burden to ensure that the world is a better place.

Well... I think I gave a good example. I really thought deeply why a certain book is good. I put mental effort into it. But it doesn't mean that I can easily explain why it is so to another person...

To me, that sounds an awful lot like faith.

 

[CriticalSock]

Yes, all true, but this thread had a more focussed agenda which I was particularly interested in. Hey ho, I'll stop moaning now! When it comes to discussing anything else my family and I roar along famously even though we had to introduce “The stone of authority” for a while (if you don't have the stone, you can't speak... ).

I too hope that Kurious Kathy will come back with constructive comments in the same way that Hokulele did, but there have been a few posts already which make me think that isn't likely.

 

[Hokulele]

Yes, all true, but this thread had a more focused agenda which I was particularly interested in.

Same here.

Ah well, lemonade out of lemons and all.

 

[JetLeg]

I think it was Holler Hoojer who mentioned Hillel in another thread, but his summary is pretty apt.

"That which is hateful to you, do not do to your fellow. That is the whole Torah; the rest is the explanation; go and learn."

Additionally, the way I understand it, the term "God's chosen people" isn't a mark of entitlement, but responsibility. In other words, it is their burden to ensure that the world is a better place.

Well... Hillel's quote is not taken out of context, I know it. But it is from the Talmud, which is a giant book. Do you know how many more things are said there?

Take a look at www.daatemet.org.il

And BTW, Hillel was just one Rabbi out of many. You cannot deduce a system of beliefs from a single statement by a single Rabbi.

As to the "responsibility"... It depends whom you ask. NOT the orthodox.

To me, that sounds an awful lot like faith.

Pity.

 

[Paulhoff]

So, no one watch the vidio I posted, I guess.

Paul

 

[Hokulele]

Well... Hillel's quote is not taken out of context, I know it. But it is from the Talmud, which is a giant book. Do you know how many more things are said there?

There are two Talmuds. Why does the amount of information matter? A summary is a summary, regardless of the content being summarized.

Take a look at <link>

I do not speak/read Hebrew.

And BTW, Hillel was just one Rabbi out of many. You cannot deduce a system of beliefs from a single statement by a single Rabbi.

Do you know of any Jews who would disagree with that statement?

As to the "responsibility"... It depends whom you ask. NOT the orthodox.

It is pretty much an Orthodox idea. Even the Wikipedia has a fairly decent summary of the various denominations and where/why they differ.

Pity.

If you asked someone to explain their beliefs and they could not, what would you call it?

 

[Ladewig]

There are two main things to keep in mind when doing so:

1) Make sure both parties understand that discussions of conversion are right off the table.

2) Never ever ever ever try this with someone who has emotional investment in the outcome of the discussion (such as you with your family).

I would add:

3) an open-minded forum. Such a discussion could occur on most skeptic boards, but I know a couple Christian discussion boards where suggesting the type of discussion you are considering would get one banned.

 

[tsig]

So, no one watch the vidio I posted, I guess.

Paul

Those who need to watch it won't.

 

[arthwollipot]

Is that a cannister of fuel in one photo? So that you can destroy the evidence if necessary??

If it is, it's empty.

 

[JetLeg]

I would add:

3) an open-minded forum. Such a discussion could occur on most skeptic boards, but I know a couple Christian discussion boards where suggesting the type of discussion you are considering would get one banned.

Can you post a link?

 

[JetLeg]

There are two Talmuds. Why does the amount of information matter? A summary is a summary, regardless of the content being summarized.

Because it is not an official "summary". There is a huge book, with lots of opinions, by various people. One single person says a single statement. Doesn't make it a summary. You don't even know if the others agree...

I do not speak/read Hebrew.

There is a link to english (small)
Go to

http://www.daatemet.org/category.cfm?category_id=25
http://www.daatemet.org/issues.cfm

 

[skullerello]

I think it was Holler Hoojer who mentioned Hillel in another thread, but his summary is pretty apt.

"That which is hateful to you, do not do to your fellow. That is the whole Torah; the rest is the explanation; go and learn."

Additionally, the way I understand it, the term "God's chosen people" isn't a mark of entitlement, but responsibility.


To me, that sounds an awful lot like faith.

(Forgive me, I've forgotten how to use a lot of the features.) But, deity or no, I've become accustomed to thinking that this was everyone's job; caring about what goes on in this

Edited by tim: 

please don't try to circumvent the autocensor

world and doing my tiny part to make it less so. After all, that's why I married Mrs. Skull and adopted her two illegitimate daughters. Some of us strive for a better world by attempting to improve and enrich our own lives and the lives of others. Motivated self-interest. No bearded sky-daddy involved.

 

[Paulhoff]

Those who need to watch it won't.

All should watch anyway.

So KK hasn't posted for a few days, she is saving it all up for a big rush of posts again.

Paul

 

[arthwollipot]

It won't help anyway. Hokulele's been banned and nothing matters any more.

 

[Tricky]

It won't help anyway. Hokulele's been banned and nothing matters any more.

Obviously, there is a need for someone to carry on her work. It could be you.

 

[arthwollipot]

Obviously, there is a need for someone to carry on her work. It could be you.

I couldn't possibly fill her shoes.