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Electric Car - Tesla Type S

Davo said:
http://www.teslamotors.com/models/index.php

Further to the Tesla Roadster, Tesla have unveiled their new model S-Type.

Specs seem very promising: 300 mile range , 0-60 in 6 seconds

Very nice looking motor, would buy one if I had a bit of spare cash ($57,000)
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I still think the Aptera is a better looking car!

And, 1/2 the price of the Tesla, and you can have one this year.

I'm not sure if it comes with its own R2 droid.
 
tyr_13 said:
Have they solved that pesky little problem about the hydrogen cars not working below freezing? That is the part that drives me nuts; all these neat new cars are practically useless around the Great Lakes and Canada. Grrrr...
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I believe that both GM and Toyota have solved the problem of cold weather starting, but I haven't found a good source yet.
 
politas said:
Personally, I think electric cars are the inevitable future option, if only because of regenerative braking. Traditional brakes turn momentum into heat, a total loss. Regenerative braking turns some of that momentum back into electricity. But if you don't have batteries, you can't store it.

But maybe a hybrid hydrogen system with some capacitors to store energy from braking and reuse it for starting off again would be a good solution.

What I'd really like to see is a car with four in-wheel electric motors, getting rid of all the driveline weight. ETA - Also means you get full traction control for nothing, and you have motor redundancy.
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IIRC, UPS is currently using trucks with hydraulic accumulators to do dynamic braking. The fuel costs apparently aren't that different, but the savings in brake maintenance makes it worthwhile. Admittedly, that's a niche application.
 
TjW said:
IIRC, UPS is currently using trucks with hydraulic accumulators to do dynamic braking. The fuel costs apparently aren't that different, but the savings in brake maintenance makes it worthwhile. Admittedly, that's a niche application.
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Sorry, not familiar with the technology, and googling doesn't seem to find any systems that recover momentum as usable energy. What exactly are you talking about that is similar to electric vehicle regenerative braking, in which a drive motor is used as a generator to brake the wheel and generate electric power at the same time?
 
politas said:
If you want to drive around in an aeroplane with its wings chopped off, sure.

Personally, I want something that can carry my camping gear.
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This is a point people miss when talking about cars and electic cars. People think that if a vehical can do 95+% of th driving you so that means it will work, but people want a car that they can go on vacation with.
 
BenBurch said:
What is done with things like alcohol cars is often to have an auxiliary fuel that can work at low temperatures, and cut in the main fuel when the thing warms up.
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No, what I can find is that they actually have them starting up at well below freezing. It is not just GM and Toyota, as it appears that Honda, Mercedes and BMW have it solves as well.
 
BenBurch said:
Yep. Its pure fluff. But people are influenced by it when it lies.
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I've been a regular watcher for years and find it very entertaining. I can't believe that anyone takes their "tests" seriously, although no doubt you'll always find someone somewhere.

Last year (or was it 07?) they claimed to have driven to the North Pole. It was the Magnetic Pole but they never said this in the programme.
 
ponderingturtle said:
This is a point people miss when talking about cars and electic cars. People think that if a vehical can do 95+% of th driving you so that means it will work, but people want a car that they can go on vacation with.
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I've been having this "discussion" w/Ms Madurobob. Its time for a new vehicle so I suggested she start looking around for what she likes. Everything she's come back with has been a behemoth SUV. When I asked why, the reason was that we need to be able fit all the stuff in for our annual two weeks at the beach.

Preposterous! It makes no sense to drive an over-sized vehicle 50 weeks a year just so on one trip you have enough room for all your crap. If it really became an issue we could rent a van for the vacation and the rental cost would be more than made up by the savings from driving a more appropriate car the rest of the year (and yes, before you ask, I do ride a motorcycle most of the time).


politas said:
If you want to drive around in an aeroplane with its wings chopped off, sure.

Personally, I want something that can carry my camping gear.
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As for the Aptera's cargo capacity:
With enough room for 15 bags of groceries, a couple of surfboards, or sets of golf bags, this cargo space is sure to meet your needs.
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It holds plenty of cargo - certainly enough for my camping gear. I think the real drawback is that its just a two-seater. The Tesla easily has it beat in terms of people carrying.
 
BenBurch said:
Top Gear also did a less-than-honest review of the Prius, if I recall correctly. Obviously they have a bias.
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Deceptive, certainly.

They drove the Prius flat out round the track and found that it used more fuel than a BMW M5 (IIRC) following at the same speed. No figures for real world usage were given, of course.

Not that I'm convinced by the hybrid concept. Dragging all that battery weight around and suffering mechanical from/to electrical energy conversion losses can't be ideal, and what happens when the batteries need replacing?
 
madurobob said:
I've been having this "discussion" w/Ms Madurobob. Its time for a new vehicle so I suggested she start looking around for what she likes. Everything she's come back with has been a behemoth SUV. When I asked why, the reason was that we need to be able fit all the stuff in for our annual two weeks at the beach.
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How many people are you taking to the beach? And why no van's?
 
TrueSceptic said:
They drove the Prius flat out round the track and found that it used more fuel than a BMW M5 (IIRC) following at the same speed. No figures for real world usage were given, of course.
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I believe that it was done exactly like that on purpose to make a point. They specifically said that how you drove your car made more of an impact with fuel savings than the size of the engine.

They did a couple of nice stunts like driving an Audi A8 diesel almost 800 miles on one tank of gas using "hypermilling techniques" with an "economy race" where they drove various cars to reach almost 40+mph/gallon.

It believe it is a completely valid point.
Not that I'm convinced by the hybrid concept. Dragging all that battery weight around and suffering mechanical from/to electrical energy conversion losses can't be ideal, and what happens when the batteries need replacing?
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Toyota and the other hybrid manufacturers usually warranty the batter pack for up to 10years. The replacement is approximately $5000-8000.
 
madurobob said:
I've been having this "discussion" w/Ms Madurobob. Its time for a new vehicle so I suggested she start looking around for what she likes. Everything she's come back with has been a behemoth SUV. When I asked why, the reason was that we need to be able fit all the stuff in for our annual two weeks at the beach.

Preposterous! It makes no sense to drive an over-sized vehicle 50 weeks a year just so on one trip you have enough room for all your crap. If it really became an issue we could rent a van for the vacation and the rental cost would be more than made up by the savings from driving a more appropriate car the rest of the year (and yes, before you ask, I do ride a motorcycle most of the time).
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You can easily do what you need by buying one the smaller hatchback cars like the Toyota Scion xA or xB or a Honda Element.

How about a good station wagon?
 
I enjoy Top Gear, but I take their reviews with a grain of salt. Not that it matters as the cars they test are usually way, way out of my price range.

I saw the Tesla review and it does seem to imply that the car just ran out of juice. (The host just sees the dashboard go out and reacts). The complaint by the Tesla makers about the brakes is a joke, however, since they did actually fail.

Complaining about Top Gear's reviews of cars is a bit like complaining about how SNL covers the election.
 
ponderingturtle said:
How many people are you taking to the beach? And why no van's?
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Three or four people in the vehicle, plus clothes for all, food staples, beach toys, etc... Its three if I have to work and ride down later, four if I am free and we all drive together.

However, the rest of the year its 1 or 2 people in the vehicle nearly all the time and rarely any significant cargo. Our current primary vehicle is 8.5 years old and has 230K miles on it - so 25K miles/year is near average. Under these circumstances the difference in gas mileage alone would easily pay for a rental van for the beach trip. An efficient SUV will get around 20MPG, a decent car will get, what , about 30 to 35MPG? Over 25K miles the difference adds up.
 
madurobob said:
Three or four people in the vehicle, plus clothes for all, food staples, beach toys, etc... Its three if I have to work and ride down later, four if I am free and we all drive together.

However, the rest of the year its 1 or 2 people in the vehicle nearly all the time and rarely any significant cargo. Our current primary vehicle is 8.5 years old and has 230K miles on it - so 25K miles/year is near average. Under these circumstances the difference in gas mileage alone would easily pay for a rental van for the beach trip. An efficient SUV will get around 20MPG, a decent car will get, what , about 30 to 35MPG? Over 25K miles the difference adds up.
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One word: Mini-van :D
 
paximperium said:
One word: Mini-van :D
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(sigh) yeah, I've managed to avoid it so far. And, apparently the new mini-van is the "crossover"... almost as bad.

But, if a nice hybrid model shows up for a reasonable price, I'll do it. I'd buy the Aptera if I trusted them to be able to cover service way over here on the East coast. I'd buy the Tesla if I was OK paying too much and waiting three years.
 
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